Sometimes I wonder if it isn't a basic flaw in the USDA hardiness scheme, or the way we use it.

Doesn't "average minimum winter temperature" mean that around half of all winters will go lower than that?

How useless would a warranty be that read "this product will only kill your plants 5 years out of 10"?

I would like to have Hardiness Zones popularized that told me what temperature 90% of my winters did not go below, or 95%!

Also, I really hope that annual seed pkts base their sowing instructions on "80% last frost date", not USDA Hardiness zones or 50% frost date.

I didn't really want to PLAN my garden so that half of all crops are killed by normal weather even BEFORE I start killing them off with my clumsiness!

"How useless would a warranty be that read "this product will only kill your plants 5 years out of 10"?"

Love that Rick!!!

Notice that I've been gardening for 3-5 years before it occurred to me that I might not be the ONLY thing killing my plants.

Funny, that Rick...

RickCorey said:I keep the PNW forum in my Favorite Forums list, but not the "California Forum".

Warm weather? What's that? I'm Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Zone Csb (but lately summers have been much warmer than "b" suggests.

BTW, in Site Talk, we got onto the topic of climate regions and regional variations. I found a site "PlantMaps" that has interactive, infinitely zoomable maps. I love the feature that lets you turn on or off the coloring for different USDA Hardiness zones so that you can tell which one is yours even if the colors look very similar. I really like it!

"PlantMaps" has a whole TABLE of different maps, like Frost Dates, hardiness zones, heat zones, "EPA Ecoregions", and native trees and plants. You can scan around the state maps like WA or OR, or enter your ZIP code, and zoom down to your neighborhood if you're near a border.

http://www.plantmaps.com/inter...


These posts and links discuss global "Koppen" climate zones:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K... . . . Wiki Intro
http://people.eng.unimelb.edu.... . . . details, paper, continental maps
http://www.physicalgeography.n...

http://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien.... . . . . USA Map
http://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien....

http://garden.org/thread/view_...
http://garden.org/thread/view_...
http://garden.org/thread/view_...

Also, here is a site that lets you search or download a big text file listing the "Koppen Climate Zones" for every US County. When I look at that and see three very different zones just in Snohomish County, I realize that climate, not just weather, is very local!

US Koppen Zones listed by State and County:
http://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien....

Outstanding, THANKS.............. ..... That first link is as 'accurate' as I've ever seen for my area ( and a few that I've lived in, as 'tests' ) Nobody seems to want to believe that I (we) lived in south central Oregon long enough to see it SNOW EVERY month of the yr ... That showed last frost average, July 11...First frost, August 11 .......... ( any questions on why I LOVE SW Oregon and Z8b? )

Oh wow, that's crazy, a whole month of frost free weather!

Thanks, Tracy. I wish that seed packets gave "best sowing dates" and cultivation advice by Koppen Zones or Sunset Zones, not just by avg last frost date. But then eac h seed pkt would have to have several pages of notes!

Botanical Interests goes partway in that direction. Both inside surfaces and the back have advice. The fronts usually have hand-drawn artwork of the plant.

I might have only 30 days with the day's avg temp below 32. But those 30 days are scattered from Dec through March.

Do I get 30 summer days above 75? Max daily temp, yes, avg daily temp, probably not. For most of the "summer", nights still dip below 60.

Hi everyone ~ I am late noticing this thread and do hope it is ok to jump right in. I am totally into food planting. Such as fruit trees, any I can get my hands on, berries of any sort, and lots and lots of vegetables. So, I don't know if that excludes me from these postings... ?
Anyway, I did have some beautiful roses but the gopher totally ate them this winter. Also, there are some beautiful older rodies around the house. We have 13 acres and I am having so much fun trying to outsmart, outrun, and overpower the slugs, coyotes, gophers, deer,mice, and rabbits so we can harvest at least a small amount of produce for the family.
I have 2 grown sons (well, one passed away), the oldest of which lives on 160 acres of beauty with his wife and my 2 wonderful grandchildren. They are in Southern Oregon while I am in Northern Oregon about 45 mins SW of Portland.
It has been so wonderful reading about each of you. Thanks for starting this thread.

Toni! And warm regards, blessings on the loss of your son, my parents (now both deceased) lost 2 of their sons and I saw how horrible that was for them - thanks for sharing that part of you so readily!
I'm pretty sure there are veggie/fruit growers on here, I myself have only done flowers and now succulents, with any amount of success I have tried for 2 years in a row growing other things and I just don't water enough I think, I got some lettuce and tomatoes, but nothing totally amazing. Slugs and rats are my main villians - living right in Seattle we don't have too many other critters (birds, but hey, love those even the crows, so try not to worry too much about them)
Again welcome and great to meet you - you'll find folks on here to be friendly and fun (I tend to start getting giddy around 9ish ) another hour huh!

Toni I have 3 blue berrybushes and grow tomatos. Yum. I hope one day to get enough blueberrys to make muffins. Happy your here!!! Cute dogs we have a tread on this forum for them too!!

Hey Toni....... I am an 'oddball' here too (IF my flowers and ornamental survive, good for them ....... I'm all about the FOOD crops ) I'm in SW Oregon like your Son and his family, but don't have a 10th of that kind of room ( WOW, the garden I could grow, lol) My Son is in yer corner for the state, still goin' to school, ( he's 23, paying as he goes) so I wait 'patiently' for marriage and GCs ...... My Daughter is in her first yr of college, so I am finding my way as an 'empty nester' ...... Needless to say, I think the garden is 'expanding' this yr ( and I might even work on the 'pretties' )

Please accept my heartfelt sympathy for the loss of your son, as the Mother of a son, my heart goes out to you...........

Is that a heeler/border collie cross? ( that would be one heck of a herdin' dog ) Beautiful shepard......................

Hi Toni. to the PNW family.
I too am sorry to hear of the loss of one of your sons.

Is that red runner beans in second photo? So pretty. Love that delphinium.
You must live not to far from me. I'm in Dallas, OR.
Wonderful dogs you have.

Planting of food crops, and/or 'Pretties' as Tracy put it, are all worthwhile to me. I would fit into both categories, leaning more to the 'Pretties' now that all the children are gone from home.
We still have wild plum, figs, blueberries, nanking cherries, chilean gauva, pineapple gauva and apples. We still grow some tomatoes, collards, peppers and basil. We no longer grow the big vegetable gardens we used to do.

Hi Greg~ Thank you for your welcome. This is such an awesome forum with awesome people. What do you do about the slugs? Your photos are beautiful ~ thanks for sharing with all of us.

Thank you Spring for your welcome ~ I wish you great luck with your blueberries. Aren't they wonderful

Hi Tracerracer ~ is that an Anatolian LGD? and a milk cow in your avatar? Both awesome anyway. It is good to have found this forum. Happy Gardening

Hi Valleylynn ~ Yes, those are scarlet runner beans ~ thanks for noticing. Not only are they excellent producers, also the hummingbirds absolutely LOVE them, and they are perrenials in my garden.... Yes, we are almost
neighbors Chilean guava...? Pineapple guava? I think I saw a pineapple guava at One Green World in Mollalla. Sounds wonderful. What is your favorite apple?

It is so wonderful to meet you all. Thank you for all of your kind words

Toni said:


Hi Tracerracer ~ is that an Anatolian LGD? and a milk cow in your avatar? Both awesome anyway. It is good to have found this forum. Happy Gardening

Kinda.......... Her name is Txiki Txiki ( say Cheeky Cheeky, it means tiny/small baby in Basque ) She is 1/2 Spanish Mastiff, 1/4 Anatolian and 1/4 Maremma all LGDs I raise Dorper sheep and live in an area that what goes 'bump in the night' eats you I have been VERY 'lucky with my sheep, but decided to not 'push the odds' any more and got a dog that can and will 'take care of' threats...........

Here's a picture of her Momma, all 150# of her, she is 100% SM


Just weighed her on Friday and at 4 1/2 months, she is 54.4# and acts like she's in her 'toddler' stage right now ( wanting 'attention ANY way she can get it But, ultimately, she is a good girl... VERY different from other dogs I've raised, I had herding dogs and my Husband, Labs, she is nothing like those pups.... It is definitely a 'learning experience' for me )

Toni - thanks, I have to go out today and take a couple more photos...I just realized that several clumps of crocus I planted are not coming up, need to investiage Maybe squirrels got to some of them afterall (I was so happy that no squirrels or rats got the the ones in back!) So for slugs I do basically nothing - or it would seem that way to others, I don't rely on what I'm growing as a food source so I can be relaxed about them. A friend told me once that you tell the slugs they can have one plant (or several) and you plant that plant with this intention, to be food for the animals...and it mostly works, every now and then something happens to the other ones, if I see slugs I don't kill them I just treat them like a weed, meaning I toss them over my shoulder towards the compost pile (you see why I don't grow Dahlias!) although surprisingly my hostas do okay!
Tracy, your dogs sound so cute and fun! Do sheep have personalities like goats? I love how funny goats can be, haven't spent any time around sheep though so don't know!
Good to see everyone on here! As always!

Jumping in a bit late, but welcome Toni. Enjoy memories of your son, time does eventaully soften the sorrow. As with some of the others, I used to have a huge vegetable garden, then converted it to a herb garden, and am now re-introducing veggies into my landscape here and there, comingling with the flowers.

Both have delicious fruit. The Chilean Guava is new to my garden, only 1 year here. So far, so good.
The Pineapple Guava has been here for 10 years and been through some tough winters. We've had fruit two different years.




Toni, you said your runner beans are perennial? How does that work? I am very interested. I grew them one year a long time ago. I loved the blooms and the beans were quite tasty.
I just read that the young leaves and blooms are also edible.