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Mar 25, 2013 8:59 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Did you have any success with getting viable seed, Anthony?

This is one of my babies that I attempted to use as a pod parent to Hornback's Gold pollen:
Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/2b61fc Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/64772a Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/68bd96
Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/b96d8a Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/6ac2d9 Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/2b7a26

Gratuitous image posting Hurray! (I just Lovey dubby the colour, foliage and flower form of this lily, but would love to improve the pedicel angle.)

Wise words, Lorn. And I love finding good lilies, wherever they may be! (A lily exploring adventure round the globe!!!)
Last edited by dellac Mar 25, 2013 9:02 PM Icon for preview
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Mar 25, 2013 9:14 PM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
I have a few.. I better go and check in the back 'jungle' Hilarious! .....................................45 minutes later...................Yes-a few more bagged up,.,.,.Got some bulbils here, for anymore Australians that may want them[echo-echo-sound of cricket],.,.
lily freaks are not geeks!
Last edited by gwhizz Mar 26, 2013 3:22 AM Icon for preview
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Mar 26, 2013 4:27 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
That's great - can you remember what the crosses were? Whether it worked as pod or pollen parent, or both? What the seeds were like?

If I understand what I've read, then triploid pollen shouldn't normally be fertile (didn't stop me trying Big Grin ) and most of the flowers I tried it on didn't make a pod.

Anyhoo, the lily above produced a seed pod: Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/f64f80

Not as plump as most, but still filled out enough to have me hopeful that there was more than just chaff in there. A couple of days ago, this is what I found:
Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/d8e6d0

Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/2163d1 Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/3f987a

Thumb of 2013-03-26/dellac/d2cbb6

Lots of chaff, but over a dozen seeds with varying degrees of endosperm development, and around half of those had visible embryos. (High-tech light table in use! Hilarious! )

I'm excited if Anthony's seeds grew. I was wondering what to make of these few seeds - I assume they would have to be aneuploids, does anyone know?
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Mar 26, 2013 9:04 PM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Pod parent, crosses with some of NJ's pendants and the Hudson's 1b-c[brown/orange-w large elongated spots]...There were a couple of good pods and a few'crumbers' Thumbs up
lily freaks are not geeks!
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Mar 28, 2014 5:56 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
A year and a day since the last post!!

I thought it might be interesting to share these pics. This is mum (left) and dad (right):

Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/1fa8fa Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/8ff8c5



And these are the babies:

Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/6fac3d Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/f23f49 Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/963bc4
Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/9755ca Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/4d10cc Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/699b88
Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/0a9dfc Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/acef89 Thumb of 2014-03-28/dellac/810376

Mum is one of my seedlings, 0618, and dad is from the Neil Jordan's Tas Township line (modern-day 'harlequins' sharing much of the same background as the originals). I've mentioned how prepotent this line seems to be - just look how much they take after dad! Could have alot to do with the pollen parent having a greater influence over flower form, but everywhere I've used this blood, the offspring are unmistakable. In many cases it's nigh impossible to detect the influence of the other parent.
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Mar 28, 2014 7:58 AM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
Family photos it is! Thumbs up That's the Harlequins for ya! Always a colorful bunch--a backyard pollenator's dream--or nightmare, depending-.
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Mar 28, 2014 10:16 AM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
What a nice (and educational) display you've made for us, Della. Thanks!

But I dunno. Your pic shows (at least to me) that the flowers of mum and dad are very much alike. Makes me wonder if the parentage of both are similar, in which case your seedling crossed with a brother sibling might yield similar progeny Confused . Even the aspects look the same. What's the big difference that makes dad so prominent? The rainbow of colors?

What about the other characteristics..... uniform as well?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Mar 28, 2014 3:24 PM CST
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Level 1
I agree with Rick. Both parents seem similar enough so it's hard to tell how much one parent effected the appearance of the seedlings.
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Mar 28, 2014 5:46 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
It might be hard to tell from photos, but in the flesh the plants (and flowers) are unmistakably different types.

Apart from L. davidii in the background I doubt they share much else. The grandparents of my seedling where L. davidii and a mixed bunch of copper 1b flowers I scored from a show because of the unusual colouring. I suspect they where someone else's seedlings, so I couldn't rule out that they had Fiesta or Harlequin bloodlines, yet they didn't display any of the typical characteristics of those groups. But who knows?

Anyway, 0618 is a large, angular flower with a flat face and recurved tips, ie. 1c/c. The tepals are very broad toward the base creating the effect of overlapping triangles when viewed from the back. It exhibits raised freckling in complementary colours to the whole flower, and the plant itself is stiff and robust. Pedicels branch upward. The blend of flower colouration is subtle and matt; it doesn't have the reflective harlequin sheen.

The dad is a small round flower that reflexes (ie. 1c/d) and creates the impression of a globe. A very waxy globe! It has very narrow tepals at the base, so that there is no real overlap; there's space between the tepals for almost their whole length. It has proper contrasting dark spots that aren't raised. The plant itself is finer, more willowy. Pedicels slope from the shoulder.

Both lines seem quite tough survivors, heat tolerant, pendant and have the fine foliage typical of L. davidii. Though, the Tas Township line maybe even moreso, because of what I presume is strong L. cernuum influence in the Harlequin background. (Hence the overall more graceful stature, also?) Flower colouration is superficially similar. That's where the similarities end.

I know from raising a good number of 0618 seedlings that she usually has a strong influence on the flower of her offspring, but coupled with this pollen... poof!!

The seedlings all display the fine willowy form, 1c/d flower form without overlap, dark spotting and small size. The rainbow colour range is typically Harlequin while there's none of the colour pattern I have seen in other 0618 offspring. It's as though she wasn't there Blinking

These seedlings were actually from a cross made in 2006, but this is their first flowering (long story), and reiterate the results I got time and time again trying to cross the Tas Township bloodline with my own. Though I don't think I've flowered any backcrosses yet.... (I may have given up in despair!! Hilarious! )

Anyway, what I wanted was the flower form of the mother with the colour range of the dad's breeding, and plant form somewhere in between as long as the pedicels ascended. I should have been using 0618 as the pollen parent instead... I wonder how much of a difference it would have made?
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Mar 28, 2014 5:57 PM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Della, did you notice most of NJ's seeds are sold, on NALS exchange?. I've harvested a few 'MONSTER' seed pods from Luina , Grenadier x Red 1c.. Della, that is a spectacular array of seedlings Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up The Hornback's Gold x Grenadier seedlings were transplanted into a pot yesterday[from a windowbag].. still looking vigorous! + 3 good pods on Terracotta Warrior X QB MAN Red 1c, X Red Velvet , and X NJ's Red 1c.. I really need to win the 21 Mill tonight , so I can expand a few acres!
lily freaks are not geeks!
Last edited by gwhizz Mar 28, 2014 6:12 PM Icon for preview
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Mar 28, 2014 5:59 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Hmmm... I dunno. Looking closely, maybe several of the seedlings have a somewhat flatter face before reflexing, but they are all still very distinctively Harlequin. I like them, and I'll keep them to see what kind of plants they develop into and backcross as pod parents... but they sure weren't what I thought might happen back when I made the cross.

Roosterlorn said:That's the Harlequins for ya! Always a colorful bunch--a backyard pollenator's dream--or nightmare, depending-.


Now I know! Rolling on the floor laughing
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Mar 28, 2014 6:05 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
That's good news, Anthony. Hadn't looked for a couple of days. The orientals Neil's breeding are nice bloodlines. I almost ordered some, then thought it was somewhat crazy to import seed back into Tasmania from the US, that had started out here! I'm sure Neil must have some to sell through the NWTLS seed bank.

Can't wait to see what your babies will look like - will they all be little Harlequins too?
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Mar 28, 2014 6:14 PM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Shrug! - let nature decide Blinking
lily freaks are not geeks!
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Mar 28, 2014 6:45 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Many of the differences you mention are evident in the photos, Della. It's very unlike me to to not to expand the thumbnails, let alone not to expand the full photo. *Blush* Other things on my mind, I guess. My first seedlings sprouted from Karen North x Tinos.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Mar 28, 2014 6:52 PM CST
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Level 1
Rick I was under the impression that the North series were triploid? Is tinos a tetra?
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Mar 28, 2014 7:37 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Dunno. I only got what looked like five good seeds - maybe - out of lots and lots of chaff. They were protected crosses before and after the actual hand pollination. Two sprouts so far.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Mar 28, 2014 9:37 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Rolling on the floor laughing It's ok Rick... if I had anything as exciting as Karen North x Tinos sprouting I might be a tad distracted too. But we must see pictures when they flower Big Grin
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Mar 29, 2014 2:37 AM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Della, can you describe what state your l. Candidum seedlings are at?''- so I can compare Blinking ..I transplanted 'good ' bulbs of Buggys 'Gorjust' today. also Joe Hoells seeds/ lings Thunderbolt /TWH /Golden Beauty X Greisbach Y/R Tetra... Concolor v Strictum sprouting.. .. Oh I must be a wealthy man Shrug!
lily freaks are not geeks!
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Mar 29, 2014 3:18 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Is 'eaten' a state?

They did the usual thing L. candidum does; foliage disappeared in February. Last week they started shooting again, looking great... then... the thumper-footed liliovores of the night struck.

I'll dig the bulbs up any day now because I need to get them potted up for the move (should have done it in Feb...), so I'll take some pics then. Hopefully put under protection they will leaf up for the rest of autumn/winter.

Lilies are riches Hurray!
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Mar 29, 2014 3:47 AM CST
Name: Anthony Weeding
Rosetta,Tasmania,Australia (Zone 7b)
idont havemuch-but ihave everything
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: Australia Lilies Seed Starter Bulbs
Plant and/or Seed Trader Hellebores Birds Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Art Cat Lover
Grumbling - Damn Wobbolies! Blinking
lily freaks are not geeks!

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