Even if they're not true to name there are very few disappointing peony flowers! I'm a sucker for the cheap impulse buy as well! Some of my favorite peonies are NOIDs.....

I bought TP Shimaniskiki from Springhill, and it was true to name.

I agree Liz, I like the cheap impulse buys. I did get Kirinmaru and 2 Kopper Kettle from Michigan Bulb Co. The roots were small, but all have grown fine. It will take a few years to see if these plants are true to name.

Can someone please explain what tissue culture is, and why is it bad?

For me, the issue is not so much the quality of the plant but the fact I may have 2 already doing well. 2 years later, I find I have 2 more. I once bought 2 potted 'Karl Rosenfield', one for me and one for my granddaughter. The KRs turned out to be a nice white with red flecks but I already had 2. Some 'Sarah Bernhardt' turned out to be a dark pink single of which I had spares enough to dig and toss them.

I shall leave it to the experts on this forum for the finer details but tissue culture is taking a living cell or group of cells and placing them in a plant growing culture similar to growing bacteria. Eventually, if all goes well, a tiny plant will form that is supposed to be a clone of the original. The downside as I have read is the plants are weak as compared to field grown plants. Also, I have read they may or not produce the color and quality of a field grown plant. The upside is the process is cheap and thousands can be reproduced at a very low cost and more quickly than field grown. No huge investment in land is required.

Thanks for the explanation Jerry!

How does one know if they've gotten a tissue cultured plant, is the seller supposed to inform the buyer of this?

That's a good description, Jerry. Many growers are not fans of this method, tissue culture due to the plant quality issues, weaker cells thus weakened garden plants with the same names as their fully root grown counterparts but not growing as well...possibly giving a named award winning plant a bad rap.

Not all "advances" are positive ones.

I too like a deal. But somehow deals like tc never work out that well for me. That and with limited space, I find a NOID white scentless white peony that takes three years to bloom, called 'Sarah Bernhardt' not very funny. Ugh. (I digress...)

I have not bought a lot of peonies but, as best I can recall, all the major nurseries specified field grown plants.

Annette,

Tissue cultured plants appear to have a different root structure (at least to my eye) in which the eyes form a very tight clump on the crown (pictured here - http://garden.org/thread/view_...). As I remember it, the crown is also somewhat spiral shaped. Sorry for the poor description; it makes sense in my head. Many of the garden centres around these parts carry Itohs provided by a supplier who propagates by tissue culture. As I made the transition from a casual gardener to someone who is a little more educated on peony culture, I learned along the way that I have acquired quite a few tissue cultured plants. So far they seem on track, but it's just coming up on three years for these plants, so I cannot say that with certainty!

I believe my Lollipop itoh peony purchased from MB is a tissue cultured plant. It is exactly as Nick described it- all the eyes are concentrated on the crown. I planted this peony in spring 2014 so This spring will be its third growing season. I sure hope it would bloom this year so I can compare its bloom to the pics on the web to see if there is any difference in color or quality of bloom.

The Itoh potted plants I purchased a few weeks ago from a local nursery had much thicker roots than any of the TC'd Itohs I bought as Monrovia plants. This nursery does not use TC plants. They have garden beds planted out with them.

The TC'd plants had masses of thin roots all intertwined.

Nick, thanks for the additional info and the pic the TC plants. I have several plants from Monrovia, and they have all done well so far.

Another issue with TC plants is they are not always right cultivars as you can find in 2-3 years later. And it is annoying to say at least waiting for some certain flower to shine... and have something totally different. TC plants are also more troublesome to divide as some mentioned before - they may have a one single extra huge root connected to the top of the crown.

Has anyone spotted 'Impossible Dream' for sale this year?

Parkland Perennials used to sell it but now they are closed. I don't know of any other place that carries it.

Thank you, Karen. I think it will be a few years before it's widely available.

I feel extra lucky now that I was able to add Impossible Dream to my collection the year before last. I know it's been touched on already in another thread, but it's such a shame that Parkland had to close. They are pretty close to me and I was hoping to make it up one of these years to visit their gardens.

I recently discovered that a local garden center will be carrying Caroline Constabel, a new Itoh variety with double pink flowers and dark flares. It is being introduced by Planteck who propagates by tissue culture (seems like this keeps coming up). Apparently the plant is named after one of the leading scientists that developed tissue culture propagation technology for commercial production. You can find the image on Google if you are interested. It's a pretty interesting Itoh. With any luck I'll be able to find a plant with some buds or flowers and share the photos here.

Edit: Planteck's 2016 catalog just went up and can be found here: http://www.planteck.com/ben/

It's funny that they're now producing Impossible Dream right after we were discussing being unable to find someone who sells it. Note the appearance of peonies that were previously exclusive to Select Plus (I hope my Haleigh's Hallelujah looks that double some day). Interesting.

Hi Nick, yes, it looks like Plantek has both of those Itohs in TC production. I imagine it will be three years before the garden centers in the US will start offering them.
Please do share photos if you are able to acquire any of the new ones.
Has ID flowered for you? Please share photos if you have any.

I wish I lived in a more suitable climate; think I'd order and start a business, Nick. Oochigeas and Caroline Constabel appeal to me in particular, personally; but there is such a demand here in the states that it would be a almost guaranteed return on investment to grow and sell any of the varieties not currently available here. Do you know where they're located? Or if they have a test garden that's open to the public? I've stayed away from the debate about TC/division grown plants because I really have no experience with the difference. It would be interesting to see a garden of mature, TC generated plants.

Karen, all of the six original Itohs I ordered from Select Plus looked EXACTLY LIKE the plants I received from MB. That was around 8 years ago and I had no clue of how to care for them, ended up losing half of them that first year. Ended up losing Berry Garcia when I divided it fall before last for a trade, I'll get that one back sometime in the future to another trade, hopefully, plus that's one that I got from MB last year. My BG from Select Plus never made it to the double flowering form anyway, very weak plant as compared to the other 2 that survived, Singing in The Rain and Strawberry Blonde. It was in my garden for around 6 years, only bloomed the last 2 years. I do wonder if Select Plus' original stock was something similar to what Plantek now offers and if the wonderful divisions we've gotten from them in the last couple of years are descendant from some of those tiny things like the ones I first got from them 8 years ago.

You are right, Liz! We will never know if the plants that Select Plus started out with were the original field grown plants divided from the original itoh plants or they started out with tissue culture plants. If the seller does not disclose its source, we just don't know. I know my Bartzella that I purchased from Solaris Farms is an original root stock because the seller said he does not propagate from TC. The same goes for my Pastel Splendor, Hillary, and Singin in the Rain which I got from Adelman peonies. And I don't think they sell TC or propagated from TC plants.

LG, I've had no flowers from Impossible Dream yet. It was planted in the fall of 2014, so this will be its second summer. I had buds last year but we had a snow storm in early May and they were blasted.

Liz, Planteck is located in Quebec. I believe they are a wholesale who sell only to other suppliers, and it is these suppliers who bring the plants to the garden centers for consumers. Here in western Canada I've seen them marketed under the name "Heritage Perennials" (http://www.perennials.com/) and so far for me the plants have all bloomed true to name. From the photos I've seen online it appears Planteck has quite a large garden, but I'm not sure if it's open to the public. It'll be interesting to see what they bring to market in the future, as their catalog states that their breeding program is aimed at producing large double flowering Itohs.