Interesting thread on tissue culture versus field grown itohs. I would say all the itohs from Michigan Bulb and similar operations are tissue culture. It is this technology that has allowed us to have itohs at a reasonable price. The only differences I can find between tissue culture and field grown are: they grow slow; they can potentially have weak root systems; and because of cloning, may not be true to the parent plant. I can vouch for the first difference. The plants I got from MB have taken 3 years to reach a point where they might have blooms this year. But I would expect that from a 1 year old plant. When you get a division that is field grown, it is mature and I would think it would take right off. I will be anxious to see when these plants are large enough to divide, what the root system looks like. It has also been my experience with itohs that all growth comes from the crown or close to the crown of the plant each year. I am not sure I understand the TC plants having eyes concentrated around the crown, all itohs do. The concentration around the crown is what gives the itoh it's concentric mound shape when growing. The plants that I have bought from Monrovia have looked like anything but tissue culture. The root mass on them has been massive and the plants reached full maturity very quickly (50+ blooms/plant). I would hazard a guess that unless you are buying directly from a grower, you are getting a tissue culture plant. I wonder if the tissue culture plant reaches a point (say year 3 or 4) when it is impossible to tell the difference with field grown. I think this is an interesting conversation but there seems to be a built in bias against propagation via tissue culture. It is why the prices have become much more reasonable. I read an article on tissue culture of the tree peony that suggested it was advantageous because it removed the herbaceous rootstock from the equation. More interesting facts. Just my thoughts.

I think that most Don Smith's itoh peonies are propagated by tissue culture. He developed these plants and sold the rights or plants to a tissue culture company in Canada. This company then uses the plants' genetic materials to produce tissue culture plants. I read this somewhere on his website. Whereas itohs developed by other peony hybridizers are propagated by a grower or growers until there are enough for sale. The advantage of doing this way is the gardener gets a piece of the "original" plant but the disadvantage is that it is rather slow and labor intensive as well as expensive initially. Thus, it depends on your preference, whether it is important that you grow the original or a tissue culture version. In any case, if you want a Don Smith itoh peony, you will just have to accept tissue culture plants.

As one who has never had an Itoh peony and doesn't care one way or the other, this discussion is both educational and entertaining. Exposure to different opinions and different experiences makes a better gardener. The problem with any cloning is the quality of the source material. Poor genetics will be cloned just the same as a good genetic source. A superb plant will produce superb offspring just as a diseased or malformed plant will produce very poor quality offspring. But, the process is gaining support and one day the huge fields of nursery plants will be replaced by a row of petri dishes.

I don't think I have a bias against TC plants but definitely think it's harder to keep them alive for the first year. The first ones I ever received were from Select Plus, think it was spring 2008 or 2009 and I lost half of them. Those that did survive bloomed for the first time spring 2013 (maybe 2012, can't remember and I didn't have any garden pics before 2013). That does feel like a really long time but even with really nice roots I don't always get a bloom 1st spring. I'm sure you're right, Jerry--clones taken from poor material produce poor plants. Looks from the pictures that Pantek is producing some amazing flowers, looks like they're doing it correctly! I think if I found 2 different divisions of an Itoh I wanted, 1 a tiny TC and the other a 5 eye bareroot I'd buy the bareroot every time, just because it'd bloom quicker. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy that TC if it's all that was offered or if there were enough varieties that I wanted to make me hesitate about the cost of multiple bareroots!

I divided two of my Itohs last Fall and their root balls were a tangled mess. I believe they were TC plants. I am hoping that the division will help them grow and perform better in my garden. I had planted both of them where they received afternoon shade and have moved them into full sun now.
Of course I will post pics of their blooms this year.

I have never divided an Itoh that didn't have tangled mess roots. Every one that I've ever divided came from Select Plus, just realized!

My 'Misaka' finally opened two blooms.


Bud 1


Side view of bud 2 in sunlight


Bloom 1



Bloom2

They are gorgeous, LG! Love Mikasa's apricot coloring esp. in the first two pics! Please show us more of Mikasa's blooms.

LG, I agree with Karen! Love the apricot peachy tones of your Misaka! Mine is no where close to blooming.

Here's Julia Rose from this afternoon.

Here is the 'Misaka' bloom fully opened.

Annette, your 'Julia Rose' is one of the prettiest I've seen.
Here are some photos of my 'Misaka' I took today with my camera rather than my iPhone.

Spectacular shots of Misaka LG!

Julia Rose was brought inside last night. I didn't want to lose the blooms due to our freezing temps this weekend.

Hi Annette, I have been bringing my potted peonies in at night, too. We have been having high winds along with the frosts.
I wish Spring would finally decide to stay!

Yep! I agree! I'm enjoying the cooler spring, but not the frost.

Got some pics of Scarlet Heaven today. Both are from Swenson's, planted fall of 2015 in one of my front beds, and both have buds.

Itoh Scarlet Heaven



When we had severe storms, with water rushing through the bed, I found a piece of a broken root with 2 pips that I potted. It appears the pips are increasing.

Nice to have something good come out of that storm, Annette! Was Scarlet Heaven the one that completely washed out? I remember you thinking one was lost then found it and replanted. Looks like it didn't suffer too much damage!

Yes Liz, it was Scarlet Heaven that was washed out. The 2nd pic is the one, and the broken piece came from that plant. I'm surprised that both plants have buds, and I'm hoping the little broken piece that I repotted makes it.

It looks healthy; so glad you found both pieces and they made such a wonderful recovery, Annette!

If any of you don't already follow you need to read the latest article from the Southern Peony Blog. She's started doing hybridizer interviews and has some beautiful pics of Don Smith's Itohs. Here's the link to the article, just in case!

http://www.southernpeony.com/2...

LizinElizabeth said:If any of you don't already follow you need to read the latest article from the Southern Peony Blog. She's started doing hybridizer interviews and has some beautiful pics of Don Smith's Itohs. Here's the link to the article, just in case!

http://www.southernpeony.com/2...

Thanks LIz just spent the last two hours reading will be for more later, have booked marked this page.