Gorgeous roses Mika! That climber is most impressive, and I love the giant white.

Shravani, love the colors of Peach Drift!

Khalid, your Julia Child is such a perfect plant. Mine stays more yellow too. It's in partial shade and has struggled with black spot.

gemini_sage said:Khalid, your Julia Child is such a perfect plant. Mine stays more yellow too. It's in partial shade and has struggled with black spot.

Neil. Julia Child likes it neutral or a little alkaline, as per my experience and gets fungal diseases if the pH is on acidic side. I sprinkle wood ash in my Julia Child pot when it rains. Rain has a pH of 5.4 and wood ash 10.2. So it turns out to be a neutral or slightly alkaline pH at the end and Julia Child likes that. In acidic pH, it is likely to burst into fungal diseases. Please note that wood ash is a very useful organic substance but due to it's high pH, IT HAS TO BE USED WITH CARE. It contains Ca, K and many trace elements like Fe, Zn, Cu, Bo, Mn etc which are very good for plants (NPKCa 0-0-7-20, last one being Ca). However, it's ruthless or uncontrolled use can be detrimental for the roses. And I am strictly talking about wood ash here, and NOT charcoal ash or any other ash.

best regards

Khalid ...

I hope you don't mind, but I thought this would be a good spot to share some research I have been following regarding black spot in the United States. I have few issues with black spot in my own garden because black spot spores are inactive once temperatures reach 85F, so are only a problem for me during the spring months. For me, if a rose defoliates in spring and does not get enough new foliage to handle my high summer temps, it is the wrong rose for my garden. I prefer to grow roses that do well in my garden without any treatment ... either organic or chemical. I have the luxury of taking that approach since I have a more arid climate during my growing season.

This is an article about black spot and what are called the "Earth-Kind Rose Trials" by David C. Zlesak. I have followed his work for a long time and have a great deal of respect for his contributions to the study of black spot.

http://hortsci.ashspublication...

You may find it to interesting reading.

Lyn, thanks for sharing the link on blackspot research. I always value new opinions and research and this is how I learn.

There could be two approaches that one can take to handle this issue. One... go for those roses that have a proven record of resistance to diseases or a particular disease (say black spot) in a particular area. Two.... go for the roses you like and then create conditions that provide them a healthy disease free growing environment. There are pro and cons of both approaches and preference may differ from person to person. I take a mix of both approaches but stay much inclined towards the later. I like to grow roses that I like but than, those may not be the best suited roses for my climate and garden setup. Looking after the individual needs of a rose cultivar (which may differ from cultivar to cultivar) is a prerequisite to second approach. It's a tedious job but I like doing it and there is lot of pleasure for me in researching and providing for the individual needs of various rose cultivars that I grow.

Now about black spot.... this year, out of around 130 rose bushes that I grow in my garden, there were zero cases of black spot. In Islamabad, black spot spores remain active till 100*F, may be they have acclimatized with higher temps here. But this statement is based on my personal observation over the years and not on an authentic scientific research. In previous years, many of my roses suffered with black spot but ZERO cases this year. I had mildew attacks on around 10 bushes but no black spot or rust. I will just share the actions that I took to create such conditions in my garden that discouraged harmful fungus attacks (black spot and mildew in particular, rust isn't that common in my area) and then leave it up to the reader to see if there is anything useful for him / her in it. Of course what works well in my climate may or may not work elsewhere.

First of all I made a deliberate effort to improve my soil, adding lot of organic matter. I don't use any chemical pesticides / fungicides ever and do not use any synthetic fertilizer also. This helped in restoring mycorrhizae networks along with beneficial microbes and worms. Mycorrhizae optimizes the nutrient intake to the roses and roses stay healthy. A naturally healthy bush has much higher probability to fight diseases and pests at its own. THIS IS THE BASIC STEP.
Secondly, through my homemade rose specific compost (on which I am still experimenting), I tried to ensure availability of all essential nutrients, specially K, Zn & Cu. Zn and Cu are natural anti fungal elements. Application of woodash also provided enough trace elements to fight against fungal attacks.
Third, I tried to keep the pH level towards neutral and didn't allow it to become too acidic. Due to frequent rains in Islamabad, the soil pH gets acidic. Controlled application of wood ash during rains allowed the pH level to stay neutral or slightly alkaline. It did have it's cons as fragrance of some of my roses was affected and the bloom shade also became lighter (due to Ca) but I didn't have any fungal attacks, except on 10 bushes which were cured in less than two weeks after wood ash application. In this process, pH of some of the pots was raised higher than the required levels which created iron, zinc and copper deficiency in few roses but those problems were individually addressed and the bushes are good now.

With all said, I am still learning. So far, it's going well for me and overall, I had the lowest number of fungal and pest attacks on my roses compared to what I used to have in the same climate during previous years. Please note that I am no qualified expert on roses and what has been written above is merely a personal experience. My philosophy has been to provide healthy growing environment to my roses so that they are capable of fighting the diseases / pests at their own.

best regards
PS: Just missed one point in the above write up. In additions to the aspects mentioned above, I avoided adding such organic matter to my rose beds directly that is high in salt content. eg. horse, cattle and chicken manures. I did add some of them in my compost (in limited quantity) but not directly in my soil. The only salt heavy organic matter that I used was wood ash but I used it in a controlled manner. High salt content in the soil encouraged harmful fungal growth, as per my experience.

Lin, that is an interesting brief. However I find that the several Knock Out roses that I have, plus Home Run are much more plagued by black spot than many of my old garden roses. Can such a small regional distance cause such a different response? Or is it a matter of deficiencies in the soil?

Khalid posted while I was typing and suggests the same logic I was exploring. Fortunately I enjoy old roses more than Knock Outs, and my practices seem to please them. So that satisfies me.

Khalid ........

It goes back to "it depends" ... According to most recent research there are 15 or 16 races of black spot world wide, with each race having "families" within them. In the United States there are said to be five active races impacting roses here. Not all roses are susceptible to all races of black spot. Nor are all races of black spot active in all parts of the United States. So, the black spot in your garden may not even be active in the United States and what works for you, may not work for someone here.

Also, I found it interesting that black spot resistance can change over time. Lots and lots of variables ...

As you once posted, there is no universal answer when it comes to growing roses, but it is always worth looking at what others have found that has worked for them.

RoseBlush1 said:Khalid ........

It goes back to "it depends" ... According to most recent research there are 15 or 16 races of black spot world wide, with each race having "families" within them. In the United States there are said to be five active races impacting roses here. Not all roses are susceptible to all races of black spot. Nor are all races of black spot active in all parts of the United States. So, the black spot in your garden may not even be active in the United States and what works for you, may not work for someone here.

Also, I found it interesting that black spot resistance can change over time. Lots and lots of variables ...

Fully Agreed. However, if you noticed in my writeup, I am not focussing on black spot or other harmful fungi that much. I am rather focussing on conditions that allow these harmful fungi to flourish and trying to eliminate those conditions from my soil / garden.

RoseBlush1 said:Khalid ........
As you once posted, there is no universal answer when it comes to growing roses, but it is always worth looking at what others have found that has worked for them.

Absolutely. I believe that one should share his / her personal experience with honesty and sincerity and without any hidden commercial motives. Then it is up to the reader to take it or leave it, depending on ones' personal preferences, climate etc.

best regards

PP ... Sorry ... I got interrupted by the arrival of the plumber ... the belief is that ogrs are more disease resistant than modern roses has been proven to be not necessarily true by the Earth-Kind Trials. So, they, too, fall into the "it-depends" category ... In the table attached to this particular study, I think there were a few roses from the 1800s and I did see some teas, china and polyanthas, but didn't see any of the once blooming ogrs ... I just glaced at the table. I have read other studies that included the other classes.

Roses can lose their resistance to black spot. The Knock Out rose was considered a break through rose for resistance to black spot because genetically it was the first rose to have horizontal resistance to all five races of black spot active in the US. All other roses that were tested were defined as having vertical resistance to black spot. To simplify, that means that the KO rose had 5 genes playing a role in the disease resistance to bs, while the other roses only had 1 gene playing the role in disease resistance. Of course, it's a whole lot more complicated than that.

The KO rose is a transitional rose ... meaning it is the first step towards a goal, not necessarily the answer.

Yes, a small geographical difference of less than a mile can make a difference. Micro-climates have a huge impact on all plants, including roses. I can see it on my very small property as compared to your farm ...

Very interesting reading all but now on a lighter note ...

It only drizzled once or twice today and we had some sun again after almost two weeks of grey cloudy weather. The garden is looking good ...
Westerland and NOID (Hybrid Perpetual) in the background.


One rose which really doesn't like the rain is Astrid Gräfin von Hardenburg (aka Black Caviar) - balls terribly - but when she does open she is gorgeous and has a sent to die for!


Apricot Clementine - new to me this year - a pretty little rose with no health issues so far


Also new this year is Diamond Eyes. The colour on this mini is gorgeous. The intensity is probably due to the weather we have been having. And it is fragrant, EVEN to me!!


Brown Velvet - looks as though it's going to take off in it's second season - covered in buds! I think the colour is just stunning!

Your garden is gorgeous! Black Caviar looks fabulous. I've never seen it before. I hope it's among the Tantau roses Palatine has promised to offer this year.

Sharlene, your garden is absolutely dreamy! Black Caviar is indeed wonderful!

Diamond Eyes wonderful colour. And beautiful garden.

Wow.... Black Caviar and Westerland are absolutely stunning. Black Caviar is on my wish list now. Thanks for sharing these wonderful photos Sharlene

Sharlene, your garden is a dream come true. I love the contrast of the various plantings.

Fabulous garden Sharlene! Is Westerland trained into a standard? You heuchera look huge! Trying to understand what my eyes see, they look 'elevated' above or behind a short fence? Is the blue a campanula? I love your use of various shades of greens and different plant heights to really showcase the roses.
I want to dig up my yard and start over! Or just come visit!

Ditto to what everyone is saying about your gardens, Sharlene.
Exquisite is an understatement.
I need to stop looking at the pictures in this thread because my garden is abysmal at the present.

If Sue wants to "dig up my yard and start over" then I should just abandon gardening completely !!!

I don't even claim to have a garden. I just grow things - mainly roses - but I love to admire other people's! I can't even imagine the effort required to achieve results like Sharlene's amazing display.

Thanks everyone! Really appreciate the compliments and being able to share with like-minded!

Calif_Sue said:Fabulous garden Sharlene! Is Westerland trained into a standard? You heuchera look huge! Trying to understand what my eyes see, they look 'elevated' above or behind a short fence? Is the blue a campanula? I love your use of various shades of greens and different plant heights to really showcase the roses.
I want to dig up my yard and start over! Or just come visit!

Sue, I have Westerland on an Oblisk for support because it is rather windy on that side of the house. It has gotten a little bare around the bottom but there are actually four main stems. The blue flowers are some sort of geranium.

About what your eye is seeing - bit difficult to explain without pics. Our house is built into a slope so we actually have four garden levels, roof included. This is the west side which we terraced. Here is a picture taken when we bought the house in 2007. The retaining wall and sloped lawn on the west border just had to go!


Got rid of most of what was growing there and started redoing the retaining walls in 2009.

Finally finished making the path up to the top level and putting in retaining walls in the summer of 2010 and started planting. Westerland is now in the middle tier


It started looking like something in 2011 - I marked the spot where Westerland is planted.


This pic was taken in March 2012 and shows just how steep it is.


Taken last week - how it has grown - most of the cement blocks are now covered.


BTW - most of my roses are in the top garden

Sue - just want to say If it hadn't been for your question, I wouldn't have gone through all the old pictures. It really amazes me how things have changed. Redoing this part of the garden was a mammoth project for us - what can I say 'blood, sweat and back-ache'!!! Today, DH and I would both think twice about tackling a project like that by ourselves!!!

Sharlene: That's a dream house..... fabulous. It must be quite a job maintaining such a huge place. Thanks for sharing these beautiful pics.

Ahh, that's what I suspected, something terraced, and you planted it so well! I too love going back through my older pictures to see how far we've come, I started my garden here in 2011 and it's sure filled in fast!
Thanks for sharing and obviously you get more rain there than we do, everything so richly green,
I have cousins in Switzerland and Germany and was so amazed and the greenery and gardens when we visited in 2009.