Loretta, Arlene, I've included several dozen different Leucantheumum cultivars, in mixed herbaceous perennial beds, especially over more recent years, generally avoiding the robust old plain cultivars. Latter, I did plant 'Becky' at Mrs. L's and had to fight it, for about ten years, as it threatened to overwhelm all the other perennials around it, on a yearly basis.

On the other hand, my experience with the fancier more modern cultivars has been the same as yours.
The single exception, in our own garden, has been 'Phyllis Smith' (single fringed petals), which has been divided and moved and has survived around fifteen years. I know David, at Merlin's Hollow, also got long-term survival from a similar Leucantheum cultivar, which we called Mrs. Cornell.

To be honest, in my crowded herbaceous perennial beds, I'm happy to get maybe five years out of a perennial like a Shastra daisy. When gaps open up in the flower beds, it seems helpful in their ongoing maintenance. In addition, I'd rather spend the time maintaining other more colourful perennials, such as garden phlox.

Five years is very good by my standards. I really like the fancy shastas but like Guara and the colorful coreopsis, they just end up being expensive annuals. Plus they are usually in full bloom in the nursery and so I just get to watch it blow over.

Sympathies from a fellow perennial gardener, Loretta. Had so many problems with the survivability of so many herbaceous perennial cultivars, myself.

Over the years, have planted the species Gaura lindheimeri in several gardens; it never came back the following year in any of them. On the other hand, there's a garden around here that has had it, in a sunny, uncrowded, position, for a number of years. A case of the plant telling the gardener where it should have been planted?

Re Coreopsis: have planted it over many years in a number of gardens. The only cultivars that just went on and on (including reseeding), year-ofter- year, were older ones ( like 'Sterntaler').

I'd assume that the older perennial cultivars, sold here 20 or 30 years ago, were generally more vigorous than those sold now. There's been subsequent horticultural selection for things like more showiness, smaller size, less height and tameness (viz. not running or seeding). I really appreciate the last mentioned; however, it likely means weaker plants.

I'd take it that (herbaceous) perennial gardening can be much more of a challenge than gardening with annuals, requiring more observation, experience, knowledge and labour. It sometimes has seemed, to me, that the kind of perennial garden I envisage, should be completely replanted every five years. It would look: a bit depleted in the first year: better in the second: at it's prime in the third: getting a bit untidy in the fourth: and needing replanting in the fifth.

Coreopsis 'Zagreb' has been here more than 20 years. I've had problems ridding myself of Gaura, then it totally disappeared.

Interesting comparisons, Arlene.

I planted Coreopsis 'Zagreb' only once and it only lasted a couple of years.
Your experience with Gaura has been very different from that of Loretta and me.

There's obviously differences in growing conditions between different locations and also between different locations within the same garden. Merlin's Hollow contained 1500 different perennials. One contributing factor was David's use of all the microclimates that the 3/4 acre garden contained.

July 25:

What a beautiful display! It is so HOT here that very little is blooming.

Looking good Charlie. Phlox are going crazy here also. Nora Leigh is always the last to bloom. 92*fahrenheit today. No relief until Saturday. Hang in there Vickie.

Gosh, that variegated phlox really provides a restful eye spot!

Vic, Mike, think we've been really lucky temperature-wise during July, but the real bonus is all the rain we've had. Have not had to water all month.

Sunny, like Mike, I'm an ardent advocate for that variegated garden phlox cultivar (Nora Leigh). Over the years, I've planted several different variegated phlox cultivars, but currently have only 'Goldmine Improved' and 'Nora Leigh', including a number of the latter in our own garden. As Mike says, it's late blooming. The bloom itself isn't much, but the cultivar, is very powdery mildew resistant. Once blooming is done, it still looks nice (here) well into October, which is long after I've had to cut down all of our other phlox cultivars.

Couple of pictures: I think 'Nora Leigh' makes any flowerbed look good and it's not upstaged by the showier flowers of other herbaceous perennials. See below: part of one of the large herbaceous perennial gardens I've installed and maintained (hobby business) over the years (Mr P's garden on Aug 20, 2011).


This 'Nora Leigh' has been cut back, but amazingly (for a garden phlox cultivar) it's still around, looking presentable in our garden, on a Nov 1, (2021).

I could stare at Mr. P's garden all day long - it's stunning!

Yes, Nora Leigh looks beautiful. Hard to believe it's a November shot.

Thank you for the photos of Nora Leigh -- it def. has presence in the garden. With good looking foliage until November, it is playing the part of a small shrub!

Thanks, Vic. I think Mr. P's property had great potential for my kind of perennial gardening, starting with a lot of sun, a lot of space, a sprinkler system and a free hand. My part: learning on the job and, of course, labour. In his classes, David always stressed the ongoing learning component of perennial gardening.

Sunny, I never thought of that, 'Nora Leigh' as a small October shrub.

Today:
Working out which phlox are which.
'Bright Eyes' seems always to take a good picture with my camera.


'Pina Colada' too.


Also 'Pink Lady'.


Find it relatively easy to get the colour of Younique Old Blue, but not of Younique Cerise (latter here).


Divided the 'Twister' two years ago. Hoping for lots of bloom this year.


Have Gentiana dahurica 'Nikita' all over the edges. It self-seeds. Bee included here.


The Gentiana paradoxa hybrid G. 'Blauer Herold' is truer to a gentian blue, but lies flat on the surface.

Stunning!

Charlie I love the Heleniums at Mr P's garden. I have been incorporating them more and more into the garden.
Love your variety of Phloxes. I have been eyeing some phlox seedlings for tagging to use in the expanding garden.

All the blooms are beautiful!

Mike, love Helenium; me too.

I think the combination of lots of sun and sprinkler systems worked well, for me, in the big gardens. In addition, I think the clumps I ended up with need division, maybe every five years, to maintain their height/vigour. Heleniums are quite shallow rooted, so it's not so hard to dig up clumps with a spade, chop them up and replant less with upgraded soil. I also feel that heleniums tend to loose out, in competition in mixed perennials, with tougher garden perennials.

Vic, more of the 'Pro Baby Doll, you mentioned, is out today. It reminds me a bit of 'Bright Eyes', but is more delicate.

I'm beginning to think that smaller daylilies, like 'Adopt Me' here, go better/fit in better in mixed perennial beds, rather than larger showier daylilies. In addition, smaller tighter flowers on daylilies may be much less conspicuous/messy when spent.