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Dec 2, 2014 7:06 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
bummer.
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Dec 3, 2014 9:16 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
So, these were the roses that caught my eye and almost caught my pocketbook. I'm only posting the links because that way everyone can see the pictures and the descriptions.

I didn't "shop" any further, once I realized I had best wait on this.

But these three, yeah, wow.

Double Delight
http://rosemania.com/shopsite_...

Ebb Tide
http://rosemania.com/shopsite_...

Francis Meilland
http://rosemania.com/shopsite_...
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Dec 3, 2014 12:49 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Hi Kyla ...

I did a little research on the three roses you mentioned, but still have a couple more sources to check.

I am seeing a change in the industry in what nurseries are charging for own root plants (bands) this year and many of them are raising the price almost up to the same amount as budded roses. That's because they can. With two of the major rose distributors going bankrupt, things are changing in the industry.

For the customer, this not really good. Roses sold as bands, which is common for own root roses, are less mature plants than budded roses and should not, in my opinion be priced the same. Think of bands as being similar to a newborn baby whereas budded roses are three to four years old.

Don't fall for the claim that an own root rose is virus free. If a rose was tested on virused root stock (which was common in the rose industry since WWII), as most of the older roses like 'Double Delight' were, any plant propagated from them will be virused. The virus doesn't go away just because it is being sold as an own root plant.

Another problem is that many of the older roses now being sold as own root plants have never been field tested to find out if they are garden worthy as own root. It's hit and miss as to whether or not they have the vigor to perform well in your garden. So, that's part of what I am checking out as well as pricing.

'Double Delight' is prone to black spot, so it may not work well in your organic garden.

'Ebb Tide' is one that I want to check with Tom Carruth about growing own root or budded. I know he was running an own root field testing program before he retired from Weeks. It also has mixed performance reports.

'Francis Meilland' is only being sold as a budded plant right now, but I'll check with Jacques Ferare of Star Roses to see if they have field tested it in the US as an own root plant.

I think I can find some better pricing than Rosemania.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Dec 3, 2014 5:15 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Hurray! Hurray! Hurray!

You're wonderful, Lyn. So, it would only be "own root" roses that I could grow from cuttings?

Also, I know black spot is ugly and all, but I just wonder if it's not adequately controllable using organic means? Both of the roses here exhibited black spot and yet bloomed nicely even under bad light and other conditions. I'm expecting both to do better with better soil and care -- even if they still show some black spot.

But you're right, I'm not willing to use any spray or non-organic control measures.
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Dec 3, 2014 6:20 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Kyla ...

Yes and no. You can grow own root roses from cuttings or you can learn to bud your own roses.

You would always have to get the propagation material from a rose that was already growing. There are a lot of different ways to propagate roses. Some methods work better in some climates than others, all have to be tweaked. By that I mean that the differences in climate ambient air temps and humidity can impact a propagation method.

Success also depends on the rose. You'll hear me say that a lot. As my rose mentor often has told me, some roses root like fire and others might root just to prove they can.

I can give you a link to Kim's blog where he explains the burrito method of propagation with some very good photos. That was at the beginning of his blog. He's now writing about budding roses, so you can learn how to do that from the same place ... Smiling

I am growing Double Delight, but my plant has been pretty stressed by the drought this summer and I think the better material for propagation will come from the new growth next spring, which means you would be using it to propagate softwood cuttings.

I know that Burling Leong who owns Burlington Rose Nursery has listed Double Delight in her inventory last season and may continue to sell the rose, but I don't know if she has changed her prices. She generally has lower prices than any of the other own root rose nurseries and ships quality plants using a flat rate from the PO.

You will have to contact her for availability and pricing. You can send a PM through her nursery page on HMF. She is so busy running the nursery, she doesn't keep her website up-to-date.

http://www.helpmefind.com/gard...

Both Ebb Tide and Francis Meilland are under patent protection. I have found a couple of nurseries selling ET as an own root plant, but they are charging almost as much as you would pay for a budded plant. At that price, I'd go for the budded plant in your climate.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Dec 3, 2014 6:42 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Starring that post so I can refer to it, Lyn, and my thanks!

I have a friend who says she has Double Delight -- perhaps I can take a cutting of hers in the spring. (I mean, I know I can, but perhaps that would be the best course. She's eager to share.)

The other two, well, like I said I have not shopped much at all. The look, color, description of scent and strength, all were what drew me, but no doubt there are others that are similar enough I'd be equally pleased.
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Dec 3, 2014 7:08 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Kyla ...

When you get Berling's availability list, you'll find a lot of classes of roses and her prices are very good. You can check for photos here or on HMF.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Dec 4, 2014 5:02 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Catmint/Robin
PNW WA half hour south of Olym (Zone 8a)
Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Mid-Atlantic Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover Native Plants and Wildflowers
Echinacea Azaleas Forum moderator Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I've been entranced by Rose 'Charisma'. I even put it on my wish list! Do you know if Charisma is easily available?
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
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Dec 4, 2014 10:59 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
There are three roses named 'Charisma'. I am guessing that you are referring to the deep pink bred and introduced by Reinhard Noack from Germany in 2010. I don't think it is being distributed in the United States at this time.

With only Connard-Pyle, Star Roses, introducing roses from other countries to be patented and sold in the US, it's harder to get roses introduced outside of the US available for distribution here.

I had read about a proposed US patent law change that states that a rose that has been in commerce anywhere in the world cannot get a US patent. I think it was a move to get a rose introduced in the US before it was introduced in other countries. I am not sure if it became law, but I do know that Conard-Pyle won't play that way and the roses bred outside of the US may never be introduced to the US, if that patent law came into effect.

It's more complicated than that, but this may be why you see roses in commerce in other countries, but not here.

The other two roses named 'Charisma' were introduced in 1973 and 1977.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Dec 4, 2014 11:48 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Catmint/Robin
PNW WA half hour south of Olym (Zone 8a)
Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Mid-Atlantic Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover Native Plants and Wildflowers
Echinacea Azaleas Forum moderator Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
The one that I saw is not pink but sort of yellow and red mixed with more yellow in the center/base and more red on the edges, giving it overall an almost orange or coral appearance. Very striking.
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
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Dec 4, 2014 12:09 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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Dec 4, 2014 12:45 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Catmint/Robin
PNW WA half hour south of Olym (Zone 8a)
Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Mid-Atlantic Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover Native Plants and Wildflowers
Echinacea Azaleas Forum moderator Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Yes that looks like it! Smiling
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
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Dec 4, 2014 1:25 PM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
OK ... that's one of the earlier plants. I am having a hard time accessing HMF and am getting an error message.

I strongly suggest you do not purchase from J & P. The quality of their plants has gone way down since they were purchased out of bankruptcy. I'll try and find another more reliable vendor for you.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
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Dec 4, 2014 3:49 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Catmint/Robin
PNW WA half hour south of Olym (Zone 8a)
Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Mid-Atlantic Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover Native Plants and Wildflowers
Echinacea Azaleas Forum moderator Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Thanks Lyn! Thumbs up
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
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Dec 10, 2014 5:24 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
The Bluestone catalog arrived today.

Hoo-boy.

So much goodness! Lovey dubby
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Dec 21, 2014 6:56 AM CST
Name: Teri
Mount Bethel, PA
Annuals Seed Starter Region: Pennsylvania Region: Northeast US Region: Mid-Atlantic Lilies
Hibiscus Echinacea I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Container Gardener Clematis Charter ATP Member
I'm trying to stick to my promise of not buying anything more that what I have coming from co op purchases a few months ago and whatever germinates from my seeds. When I looked up just how much all this amounted to....I realized.....A LOT!!!
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Dec 21, 2014 7:19 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Catmint/Robin
PNW WA half hour south of Olym (Zone 8a)
Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Mid-Atlantic Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover Native Plants and Wildflowers
Echinacea Azaleas Forum moderator Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I agree I now have this huge pile of seeds, and here I thought I'd only gotten a few things! Big Grin
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
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Dec 21, 2014 8:09 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
Hush. (just kidding yanno. Hilarious! )

I am *trying* to ignore all those seeds until after Christmas! And also ignoring the thoughts of all the perennials I feel I need to buy ha ha ha ha.
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Jan 6, 2015 5:06 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kyla Houbolt
Gastonia, NC (Zone 7b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
I got my pink muhly grass seeds and my cymbalaria seeds the other day, ordered from Outsidepride.com.

Green Grin!

I've got a lot to get done, before spring!
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Jan 6, 2015 5:14 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Catmint/Robin
PNW WA half hour south of Olym (Zone 8a)
Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Mid-Atlantic Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover Native Plants and Wildflowers
Echinacea Azaleas Forum moderator Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Thumbs up
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso

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