I am not sure, maybe @RoseBlush1 or @zuzu can shed more light on a rose reverting back. Sure is pretty and a fun novelty with both colors on the same plant!

As usual, it depends on the rose ... Some roses will revert back completely one year, but then the next year, you won't see the reversion at all. Sometimes, you will see the reversion on just a few canes. It varies.

It all depends on how stable the new rose is as a rose and there are a lot of variables that can impact the stability of the new rose, so I can't give you a straight answer.

RoseBlush1 said:As usual, it depends on the rose ... Some roses will revert back completely one year, but then the next year, you won't see the reversion at all. Sometimes, you will see the reversion on just a few canes. It varies.

It all depends on how stable the new rose is as a rose and there are a lot of variables that can impact the stability of the new rose, so I can't give you a straight answer.

Thanks RoseBlush1. Can we do something to prevent or minimize the possibility of a rose reverting back or as you said, "it depends on the rose"?
best regards

After morning rain today....

I have often wondered why rose grafters don't create the rose equivalent of the fruit cocktail tree by grafting several different roses onto a single root stock for a multicolored bush. An enhanced version of the effect you get temporarily with reversions or root stock takeovers.

We have one in town here, a standard, with at least two grafts, Burgundy Iceberg and Pink Iceberg.

PP ....

They used to do that quite often. The art of grafting is becoming a lost art.

It's not all that hard to do. It's just that there aren't all that many people grafting roses any more. If you want someone to do it for you, there is a lady down in Texas I know who custom grafts and is doing quite good work.

Last year, Lowes had several pots of roses with 2 grafts. I bought 2 different ones, and when they bloomed, discovered that each did indeed have 2 roses, but none were what the labels said they were! I did get one good one somewhere else that has Pink Iceberg and Burgundy Iceberg. I saved a few of the Dr. Hueys that I dug out with the plan to practice budding, and I want to bud several different ones just to see what happens.

We just had a severe storm blow through here. Branches are down but we still have power. Weather Channel says our winds were 80 mph and I believe it. I was outside planting and winds went from nothing to 50 very suddenly. My wooden ardirondack chairs blew by me as I was running to the door. Every time we get a hailstorm forecast, I pull all my Hoyas and orchid pots out of the trees and move my planters under the eaves. I need a larger porch! I have too many roses in pots still!

It is very seldom that I have seen roses grafted with two different roses here in Switzerland. Sometime the big stores have some but I have never seen any at a nursery.

Lyn, I disagree that grafting is becoming a lost art. I cannot speak for trends in the US and CA but most of the rose growers here in Europe still graft because it is the easiest, quickest and most economic of producing roses. It only takes one bud eye grafted in Aug/Sept to produce a sellable A-Grade rose by the next autumn. Own-root roses are only catching on slowly and they are quite a bit more expensive than the grafted roses.

I have been meaning to post an update on the florist roses I grafted in May http://garden.org/thread/view_...
I grafted 10 buds on a cane - just an experiment - and all but on have grown and the one that hasn't is still green.


Here are some standards that I grafted last year using my method of rooting and grafting at same time. The four small ones are Bonica and the taller is a florist rose.


This pic is of a florist rose grafted onto root stock in May 2015.


So Cindy, I can only encourage you to give it a go. I have even on occasion used roses growing in the garden as surrogates. You can actually graft onto any rose.

PS - photo quality not the best! It has been raining the last four days and the light was not that great when I took the pics half an hour ago (18h30)

Wonderful, Sharlene! What did you use as the standard?
Now I really want to do some budding.
What type of knife do you have?

Sharlene ....

They used to graft roses by the millions here in the US, but when J & P and Weeks went bankrupt there were few large distributors left here. Certified Roses, Mei Roses and a few others that always supplied the big box stores are still around, but the rose industry in the US took a BIG hit. That's why it is really hard to find good grafted roses in the US any more ...

Also, there are no major rose companies with a breeding program in the US now that J & P and Weeks are gone. The rose industry as we once knew it is in the dark ages for a while. Some US breeders are getting their roses picked up for distribution, but very few.

Grafting isn't difficult, it's just that no one has stepped in to fill the void.

Thank you for encouraging everyone.

Generous Gardener, top of the gazebo with a telephoto lens - blooms pretty much non-stop, v. healthy, wonderful fragrance, almost thornless. Love it!



Noid, but pretty

I hope you have a two story house - the better to appreciate Generous Gardener!

3 storey (in a peculiar Hansel and Gretel way), but the garden is long enough that we can see the top even from the ground. But the best way to enjoy it is to sit inside the gazebo - the scent, the sight and a wonderful place to chill. I really love this rose.

Sharlene, great work! I look forward to finding out how your experiments develop!

Mika, The Generous Gardener is wonderful!

sunnyvalley said:So Cindy, I can only encourage you to give it a go. I have even on occasion used roses growing in the garden as surrogates. You can actually graft onto any rose.

Sharlene ....

A group of us would often visit Ralph Moore at his nursery in Visalia for his birthday and other special occasions. We came from all over California and several other states. He was so special to all of us. Many of the people in the group included those who he had mentored for several years to breed roses. He was breeding new roses and making crosses until he closed the nursery when he was 100 years old.

Of course, in his later years, he could not get around the nursery as easily as he could when he was younger, so he had Berling make the actual crosses, but when the seedlings came up, he would graft cuttings to various roses growing around his home and the nursery office. It was a delight to drive into the nursery and see roses with several different seedlings grafted to the roses so that he could observe the crosses.

His body may have gotten old, but his mind was always young.

I miss him.

Lyn, you are so fortunate to have made the acquaintance of Ralph Moore!
I only have the internet as a source but have read everything I could find about Mr. Moore! I especially enjoyed this article http://www.paulbardenroses.com... and http://www.rainforest2548.org/...

About J&P and Weeks breeding programs: I was not aware of this. I thought that Christian Bedard had taken over from Tom Carruth and is breeding for Weeks in California. Bedard registered Edith's Darling, Easy To Please, Cupid's Kisses and Violet's Pride in March of this year. Has he left Weeks?

@CindiKS There are so many knives available on the market. I started off with a florist knife (left pic) and then bought a special grafting knife (right) - the blades are only sharpened on one side so come for left and right handed users and are very, very sharp!

I must say that I still use the florist knife more and it works just fine so you don't have to go out and buy some fancy expensive knife.

Sharlene ....

Weeks ... was growing J & P's last crop when they went down, so Weeks ended up going down with J & P. Tom retired and Christian is now working in Canada. Keith Zary who was head of J & P, is now head of Spring Hill's stone fruit breeding program. Spring Hill bought Weeks out of bankruptcy. All of the growing grounds in southern CA were sold. J & P is now owned by investment bankers, so it is only a brand name and is not run by rose people. The same can almost be said of Weeks, altho' it was bought out of bankruptcy by Spring Hill.

Paul was one of the breeders mentored by Ralph Moore and a part of the group that met up with us at Sequoia. We all talked roses so much, it's hard to know who said what first ... We taught each other so much and learned so much from him. Yes, everyone talked in crosses and classes and, trust me, I had to keep up with my homework just to be able to stay in the conversation. It was wonderful.

Paul got Ralph's permission to put all of his writing on that site, so if you need help with the search, just drop me a t-mail. It's kind of tricky to find all of it. Ralph forgot more about roses than any of us would ever know and willingly shared with anyone who wanted to learn. He truly believed that knowledge unshared was knowledge wasted. There was an implied obligation that we pass along anything that we learned from him, or each other, or what we have learned in our own rose lives. And we do. It's really just a part of passing along Ralph's gift to each of us. We just can't keep it to ourselves.

Thanks for the update Lyn - such a pity when the big names in the rose world run into difficulties - difficult to fathom!

I really envy you having met all those people personally.
There is so much information on Paul Barden's website 'Old Garden Roses and Beyond' as well as his blog and I am so grateful it is still online. Anyone interested in hybridizing and propagating has to have a look at it. I learnt so much from the articles by Malcom Manners, Ralph Moore and others.

Here are some pics of florist roses which I grafted and are now growing in my garden.