Becky the double look more like LM and the second one look more like DD in my opinion. The day lily Apophis (http://rockhavendaylilies.com/... ), have by all reports reduced gamete, which is why from what I have read it can pollinate both diploids and tetraploids. I am no Admmad, when it comes to the intricacies of these matter. Just passing on this info. Come to think of it I got some seeds in the fridge that I got from Mr Burris with some of Mahieu/Burris tall stock.

Mike - I see a bit of both parents in the single bloom. The double does remind me of Exotic Echo (which is in the genetics of both parents). That is a small bloom with a short scape, though the flower color is different. That green throat with dark halo around that area and larger bloom size does look a lot like LM.

Exotic Echo:



My double seedling:



That is very interesting info about the Apophis daylily. You should grow out those seeds!

:

Hazelcrestmikeb said:The day lily Apophis (http://rockhavendaylilies.com/... ), have by all reports reduced gamete, which is why from what I have read it can pollinate both diploids and tetraploids. I am no Admmad, when it comes to the intricacies of these matter. Just passing on this info.

Mike, it is theoretically possible that there are daylily cultivars that produce some "unreduced gametes". 'Ed Murray' might be one. However, Arisumi made a large number of diploid x tetraploid crosses and he basically examined the frequency at which such gametes might occur. His results indicate that one must make thousands of pollinations to possibly find one unreduced gamete and in doing so the number of triploids produced would swamp the rare tetraploid produced.

In doing crosses that work only if there are unreduced gametes there is a very important possibility that one must eliminate, and that is natural pollinations. In most modern cultivars hybridizers have modified the flower opening times, fragrances, sizes, etc., with the end result that natural pollinations are infrequent. But that is not the case for the original species daylilies and plants not many generations removed from the species. In those cultivars natural pollinations can occur at high frequencies before the hybridizer makes their own hand pollinations. That is the case for Hemerocallis citrina and daylilies descended from it. Mahieu used citrina and other species in his hybridizing. I strongly suspect that the success of diploid x tetraploid crosses when a Mahieu cultivar is used as the pod parent is due to natural pollinations. The next most likely situation, if the seedlings are not simply diploids, is that they are triploids, which does not involve unreduced gametes. The least likely situation is that the seedlings are tetraploids from unreduced gametes. In any case, it would require chromosome counts or DNA analysis to correctly identify the ploidy of any seedlings produced from cross-ploidy pollinations.

A reduced gamete is the correct gamete. A diploid with 22 chromosomes produces normal gametes with 11 chromosomes - the reduced number. If it produces unreduced gametes then those gametes will have 22 chromosomes - the unreduced number.

In Arisumi's research he managed to produce one tetraploid (from unreduced gametes) and 11 triploids (from normal gametes) from an average of 1300 pollinations. Even when using a cultivar that may produce unreduced gametes, such as 'Ed Murray', it requires many pollinations to produce a single tetraploid viable seed.

Anyone interested in trying diploid x tetraploid crosses should make certain that they use 'safe' (Whatley) hybridizing techniques (http://www.daylilies.org/Whatl...) that prevent or reduce natural pollinations. Even in modern cultivars that do not have frequent natural pollinations, when one is searching for a rare occurrence, such as a tetraploid produced from an unreduced gamete, even a rare natural pollination can trick one. As an example, 'Lights of Detroit' (LOD) is rumored to produce unreduced gametes. Whatley did a large test of LOD with many pollinations. He used fifty LOD plants, 25 were pollinated only with diploid pollen and 25 were pollinated only with tetraploid pollen. There were three pods produced from the plants pollinated with tetraploid pollen (the diploid pollen crosses were prolific). Of those three pods only one had viable seed and they produced diploids. There is no reliable evidence that LOD produces unreduced gametes; reliable evidence indicates that it does not.

I agree with what Maurice stated .... that you would probably have to grow out a LOT of daylily seedlings to get some that produce some "unreduced gametes". What are the odds!? Very low odds, I am sure!

2nd (and last bloom on 1st scape of double ZZZ73). This first scape had (if I remember correctly) 5 buds on it when the scape was developing. One bud aborted right before it opened (turned yellow and literally dropped off the scape). 2 smaller buds aborted. So that left 2 that actually bloomed.

Why do scapes abort buds, especially one that is ready to open?

Anyway, this 2nd bloom is also a double. The bloom that aborted right before actually opening (which would have been technically the 2nd bloom) had extra petals when I dissected it that indicated to me that it was a double flower as well. I like this bloom as well. This daylily looks like it may turn out to be a very nice double-bloom seedling.

2nd bloom photos taken at approx. 7:00 am:





I am most impressed with it not being covered in rust like another hybrid seedling leaf touching it in this photo (look to the very left and you can't miss the rusty leaf).

Photos were taken at 5 pm:





Photo taken at 7 pm:



I am showing the different photos because it doesn't appear to be wilting yet by evening and it seems to be holding some of it's color by the end of the day.

I like it Becky

Me too !

Me, three! Thanks everyone!

Becky

ZZZ72 second bloom on plant bloomed last Friday (March 20):
Morning photo:



Afternoon photo. The bloom colors fade considerably. Not bad colors, but the pattern on the eye fades more than I would like it to.:

Even with the afternoon color fade it is still a very pretty seedling!

Becky, I would be thrilled to have a seedling like that -- love that green throat! Congrats!!!

What a nice seedling! Congrats, Becky

Char, Cindy, Betty, Vickie - Thank you. It is probably one of the prettiest blooms I have currently from the seedlings/hybrids I've been growing. I don't have many fancy patterned types. (Which is something I am attempting to produce more of.) I hope it continues to show some rust resistance. That would make it very valuable to me (personally)! I really want to produce some pretty faces with good foliage to name after some loved ones. (It's very important to me to be able to do that on a personal level.)

Beauties all, Becky. Way to go! I only have one putting up a spike at the moment, Moonlit Masquerade. But it is one of my very favorites, and any day lily is such a treat at this time of year.

I have a bunch of seedlings from Michele that will be fun to see when they bloom, but nobody's put up any scapes yet.

Although scapes were up last month, the freeze finished them off.
This is the first seedling to bloom this year:


I think it is a 'Reese Renee' x 'Wreathed in Teeth' cross.
Plant has many good features, but flower did water spot in thunderstorm.

Size was around 5.75", 28" high. Thunderstorm messed up any followup.

Elaine - I can't wait to see your seedling blooms!

Pat - Such a pretty soft yellow. Do tell us the stats on your seedling!

This is the 3rd bloom of ZZZ72 (Laura Mast x Dragonfly Dawn). I am starting to see a pattern around the green throat. Maybe it will be more prominent next year?



A brand new seedling bloom. (First bloom ever from it.) This seedling is about a year and a half old. Planted in the ground a little over a year ago. This is "Through the Looking Glass x unknown". The seed came from Seedsower. (Thanks Sandi!!!)

This first bloom was over 7". (I think this is the largest bloom I've seen on any of mine.) The scape was 27" tall. 8 buds on this first scape. Very little rust on leaves. (yay!) Beautiful!!! I was shocked at the size of that bloom. I have read about 7" blooms, but this is my first one.



There is one odd thing about it that I have never seen before. It is putting out a single bud half-way up the scape. What causes something like this? (See where the red arrow is pointing in this photo.):



This is close-up of that oddball bud:



This is how it looks at the end of the day.:



It looked like it had the "start" of maroon edging around the petals near the throat, but the edging disappears before completing the entire petal. Maybe that will be more complete in future blooms? I love the size of this bloom. Definitely an eye-catcher. Color stands out, too.

These recent seedlings are totally different than other seedlings I've grown. Nice to have something new, with fancy faces. And the one double-bloomer. So far, so good this year! I hope the show continues with more surprises.

I have scapes/buds on some more first time to bloom seedlings:

1 scape on Cherry Custard Cheesecake x Palace Garden Beauty (from Cindy/Hemlady) Sowed Fall 2014.

1 scape on Dragonfly Dawn x Dragonfly Dawn (last seed left that I sowed). Sowed in Fall 2014.

Another seedling of "Through the Looking Glass x Unknown" with a scape. A year and 4 months old.

2 different seedlings with scapes on "Laughing Clown x Zanti Misfit". A year and 3 months old. (Seeds from Daredevil on the LA.)

A scape on 2 different seedlings of "Laughing Clown x CWLWHYOG". A year and 3 months old. (Seeds from Daredevil on the LA.)

I can't wait to see the blooms!

Can't wait to see more seedling pics!
with the oddball bud, there is usually a prolif on mine when they do that.

I have a few small, newly emerged scapes on Gracious Living.