Sharlene ....
My primary rose mentor has been Kim Rupert. When I first met him, he talked in terms of lineages and classes of roses in the lineage which carried various traits forward to the roses we were discussing. I had to do a lot of studying just to understand what he was talking about ...
My education was further enhanced when I was a "fly on the wall" during discussions at Ralph Moore's nursery when Kim and others were discussing breeding with Ralph. At that time Ralph had forgotten more about roses and the breeding of roses than any of us knew ...
In other words, what I am sharing is what I learned years ago and I may leave some things out.
sunnyvalley said:@RoseBlush1
Lyn, thank so much for that bit of info - really very interesting!! 
The descendants, going into the eighth generation, are quite numerous with lots of stripes. FP has been on and off my wish list for a couple of years now, I could never make up my mind. Might just have to put it on the list again 
You could introduce FP into your breeding program, but the advantage of using a more modern rose that has FP in its lineage is that the breeder has usually worked to breed out any weakness in the breeding line and has often developed a good seed parent or pollen parent that passes along the striping trait consistently. Back breeding is always an option, but combined with a more modern rose, you can generally end up with healthier off spring. Just a thought.
Ralph held back several good "breeder" roses to use in his breeding of striped roses. Yet, the roses he did introduce still carry those genes.
You flatter me but my background doesn't seem to be helping very much in this case! Quite honestly, I don't see how the lineage, which I have studied, can help me. I did consider bloom form, shape and petal count and am still not 100% sure.
The Simpson 'Hot Chocolate' is a cross of a hybrid tea x floribunda. It has 6 HTs, 3 floribundas and 2 pernetianas in the lineage of the seed parent. (Note that 'Peace' is in the second generation. You can almost immediately recognize the influence of 'Peace' in petal arrangement in the bloom form.)
There is one HT and 7 floribundas in the lineage of the pollen parent.
The Carruth 'Hot Chocolate' is a floribunda x floribunda. It has 1 HT, 6 floribundas, 1 climber and 1 unknown in the seed parent.
There are 6 HTs, 4 floribundas, and 2 unknowns in the pollen parent.
What I see as a difference in the bloom form probably comes from observing a lot of roses and I can clearly see the 'Peace' influence in the Simpson rose.
Now if I take into account the availability of each rose here in Europe and the number of gardens on HMF listed as having these roses, it is probably most likely that I have the Carruth rose. What do you think Lyn?
From what I know of the rose industry at the time the Carruth rose was introduced, I think it is very likely you have the Carruth rose. However, to go back to bloom characteristics, as the Carruth rose opens, there is a stage where it is almost cupped which is not common for roses with 'Peace' in their lineage. I know that is vague, but it is always difficult to identify a rose just by the bloom.
One other consistent characteristic of the Carruth rose is that it is "armed with thorns". If your rose has a lot of prickles, that would be an indentifying characteristic. I read the Australian patent for the Simpson rose and it seems like it has fewer prickles.
I hope I have answered your questions ...
Now I am not sure which I have 
Thank you for sharing your experience with these amazing hybridizers! 
and would love to know if there is any other name I can use, or way of shortening your name, like PP that would be good?
