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Jun 4, 2013 10:17 PM CST
Name: Michael Norberry
Arcata, CA Zone 9 or 17 suns (Zone 9a)
Region: California Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Ponds Seed Starter
The other 2 seedlings will not bloom this year.
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May 6, 2014 7:24 AM CST
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Level 1
Lilium duchartrei (corrected from taliense) in her glory!



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A nicely folded Turks cap with a light, clean scent. Nice green nectaries and beautiful marbling.
Last edited by Joebass May 6, 2014 11:20 AM Icon for preview
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May 6, 2014 9:34 AM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Gosh, isn't that stunning, Joe! I am still overjoyed when any of this lily group opens in my garden.

But it is doubtful that that is L. taliense. I would ID it as L. duchartrei. L. taliense nectaries (the center of the petals going into the center of the flower) should be smooth (not papillose). In addition, L. taliense leaves should be single veined, not 3-5 veined as in your pic. overall coloring of the flower is less important.
Lilium taliense
Lilium duchartrei
Chinese Lilium key
Pics from Bjornar Olsen (the Norwegian plant hunter living in Chengdu, China)
Lilium taliense


Personally, I think L. duchartrei is more elegant.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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May 6, 2014 10:34 AM CST
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Level 1
Damn Rick! I believe you maybe right! The link you provided shows similar flowers. It is slightly pappilose, and the nectary is green as opposed to black streaked. The description also describes white hairs in the axils for duchartrei. The leaves mostly look one veined to me. It was sold as taliense. Oh well this is beautiful anyway. There is one in a pot outside that is growing one bud. I wonder if it will have the pinkish tinge that duchartrei sometimes has due to the cooler weather? I guess I will have to move my pictures over! Thanks Rick!
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May 6, 2014 3:36 PM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
Sure is a pretty flower! Thumbs up
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May 6, 2014 7:30 PM CST
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Lovely! I wish I could get my L. duchartrei to flower!
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May 6, 2014 11:45 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Joe, it's smart of you to add the pic of the leaf axil hairs to the data base. And it is especially satisfying that in the caption you took the time to describe the photo's purpose. We really lack identifying characteristics of so many of the entries. The "pretty" parts are always welcome to the eye, but often it doesn't say much to differentiate one species/cultivar from another because there can be so much variation. When I grew my L. taliense, I took particular note of the leaf form along with other characteristics, as it came from a vendor known for her misidentifications. Leaves were more clearly one-veined than yours. In addition, your plant (not just the flower) has the general look of duchartrei, and not so much taliense, even taking into account that yours is pot grown and not a "perfect" example. One of those intuitive things that comes with long term experience and along with long term observation from all sources.

Alas, my L. taliense died (of bulb rot) a few years ago during a wet summer. Now I have new seedlings coming.... Big Grin
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Jul 12, 2014 2:57 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
The fake Lilium tsingtauense:
Lilium tsingtauense x (L.medeoloides and/or L. distichum)

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Lilium duchartrei
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Lilium lijiangense
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Lilium davidii and Lilium davidii var. willmottiae
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Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii from wild collected seed on Oyama, Toyama Prefecture, Japan.
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Jul 12, 2014 8:09 PM CST
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Great photography, Rick. Thank you so much for sharing these. Those Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii blooms seem to have a magical glow. Can I detect some variation there? And what are those little flies that like Lilium lijiangense so much? And this is funny... but my enter key seems to have just stopped working. How on earth can I make paragraphs now! Hilarious!
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Jul 12, 2014 8:18 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Region: Pacific Northwest Sedums Sempervivums Lilies Hybridizer
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Pollen collector Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Wait a minute here... my ENTER key stopped working in the dialog box just a little while ago too, but it is working now... weird that we both had the problem. Whistling
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Jul 12, 2014 8:27 PM CST
Name: Joe
Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
Lilies Region: New York Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Jul 12, 2014 8:45 PM CST
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Beautiful Lilium sargentiae

pardalinum said:Wait a minute here... my ENTER key stopped working in the dialog box just a little while ago too, but it is working now... weird that we both had the problem. Whistling


And I just confirmed I can ENTER again! Spooky..... *twilight zone music*

Hilarious!
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Jul 12, 2014 9:22 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Region: Pacific Northwest Sedums Sempervivums Lilies Hybridizer
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Pollen collector Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Yeah, spooky... I hope I don't lay awake tonight trying to figure that out! Confused
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Jul 12, 2014 9:55 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Yes, they do kinda glow! And there is a bit of variation so far. Not in foliage, though. The bottom left pic is from a 3x3x5 inch pot with 4 plants in it, while all the others are in the ground.
I don't know what those tiny flies are..... But they sure are attracted to lijiangense. I actually blew them off for the photo, but they came back almost instantly. There were about twice as many as you see. I've never seen more than a few on any other lily flower.

Thanks for putting those pics in, Joe. They make nice additions to the thread.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Jul 14, 2014 1:15 PM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
L michiganense. I drove around the back way thru the area today and spotted this nice example. I had to raise the camera as high as I could reach for picture 1. There are many, many of these blooming here at this time. I was looking for a yellow-tan variation, but picture 3 is the lightest I could find.



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Rich deep color on this one.







Edit Added: I was going to say that normally these enjoy the company of other herbaceous greenery for support but this tall one had a stem diameter of about an inch (2.5cm) and was not dependent for support. I'll get some seed from it if some jerk doesn't pick it first.


Edit Added July 15th, 2014: Another color variation I found is shown in the five pictures below. Pictures were taken in the morning one day and in the afternoon the next day showing them fully reflexed. Note the unique kink in the pedicel of those in this group
.
AM


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PM--fully reflexed



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Photos below show two different inflorescence types.




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Other casual shots:





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Last edited by Roosterlorn Jul 15, 2014 6:50 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 14, 2014 1:41 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Region: Pacific Northwest Sedums Sempervivums Lilies Hybridizer
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Pollen collector Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Amazing variations in color, Lorn. Isn't it so nice to go out and find wild growing lilies Lovey dubby .
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Jul 14, 2014 3:31 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
Most excellent Lorn!
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
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Jul 14, 2014 5:14 PM CST
Name: Dave
Dayton, TN (Zone 7a)
Blessed beyond all merit.
Houseplants Lilies Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Container Gardener
Butterflies Hummingbirder Tropicals Cottage Gardener Foliage Fan Aroids
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Jul 15, 2014 6:55 PM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
Added pictures to post 658827, L. michiganense above, showing variation.
Last edited by pardalinum Jul 15, 2014 8:12 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 15, 2014 9:36 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
I my region, all wild specimens I have seen have umbels, not racemes. When Darm Crook gave his talk at this year's NALS convention, he show a lot a photos of Lilium michiganense. When I commented that all the pics showed racemose inflorescences, he replied matter-of-factly, "All my michiganense have racemes." And he has accessions from different parts of the continent.
I only have umbel forms.

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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates

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