Never really thought about it that much, but this year I have some seedlings that are a foot or more taller, and more than ready for the weather to warm up so they can go out into the gardens... while other seedlings are tiny, were late in sprouting and are still only 3 inches tall. (Though I've never noted that the 'later to germinate' are in any way less hardy or healthy than those that arrive sooner.)

And then there are the no-shows... who have yet to put in an appearance. In the past, I generally figure - hey, I already have plenty to plant. Done deal.

But when is it really time to wait a little longer... or just plain time to toss?

I thought 52 days was going to be it this year until one popped up @ 105 days...it did not survive, however. Dry refrigeration only.
The eager 🦫 beavers 🙄 on the other hand were up in three days.

I stratify my seeds, and I expect them to be up and running in a month. But, I think three months would be my absolute limit to wait on any seed to sprout.

Some can take months to germinate, I know I'm not the only one who has given up on some and re-used the seed starting mix to repot a houseplant only to find daylily seedlings coming up in the pot soon after! They just had a longer seed dormancy than the others. That is the reason many people stratify their daylily seeds before starting them, because stratification breaks seed dormancy and makes them all germinate together within a week or two.

I must admit that this year I got impatient and resorted to scarification of seeds that were doing nothing after my waiting for months (I quickly found out that cold damp stratification is not the panacea people have implied). A few weeks after that they were mushy.
So lesson learned. Do not rush them.
Last year my leftovers I put in plastic disposable party cups with soil, and put them outside, with some chicken-wire over them so squirrels do not go digging. No special attention aside from the occasional watering. One did pop up at the start of fall 2021! It is back this spring so I am happy I did that.

plasko20 said: I must admit that this year I got impatient and resorted to scarification of seeds that were doing nothing after my waiting for months (I quickly found out that cold damp stratification is not the panacea people have implied). A few weeks after that they were mushy.

Not sure I follow, were they scarified or stratified or both?

This year when I saw that I had peat pots where no seeds germinated I tried something different. I had plenty of leftover seeds since I usually plant no more than 6 seeds of a cross so I put the leftover seeds in a plastic sandwich bag with a soilless mix and added a little water and just left them on the window cell. No cold stratification. They all germinated within 10 days and I planted the seedlings in my empty peat pots under the grow lights.

Bob,
What time of year did you put those seeds in the window sill, about what temp. would you guess the seeds were exposed to? Did they get exposed to full sun most of the day?

sooby said: Not sure I follow, were they scarified or stratified or both?

Initially cold damp stratified. But nothing happened upon releasing them into warmer temperatures. I tried to re-stratify them just in case. But again, nothing.
So then I tried to scarify them but they were not so solid at that point so that consisted of making a tiny slit through the shell to allow water in.
That is when they turned to mush.
That was a failed experiment. So I hope people learn from my mistake there.
I also tried taking non-stratified seeds (well dry-cold stratified anyhow, not wet) and scarifying those also. But again, nothing but mush after a few weeks at room temp in a moist sealed bag with perlite.

@plasko20 couldn't it be that they were duds to start with? Stratification shouldn't be "wet", the medium should just be as damp as you would use to start seeds normally (I assume they were taken out to germinate after about 4-6 weeks and not longer?). Dry chilling is not stratification but just storage. Mike Huben tested scarification as opposed to stratification and it worked well for him, so I tried it and it worked for me as well. My concern always with scarification for seeds like daylily that also respond to "gentler" methods is that it opens up the protective black phytomelanin coating and makes the seeds more vulnerable to pathogens. The seed coat on daylily seeds is not impermeable to water so there is no problem with their taking up water through it.

Can someone discuss "after-ripening" of daylily seed to break dormancy?
I have a quote, but no name to go with it, "I do not cold moist stratify daylily seeds. I leave them at room temperature, dry in envelopes for months. When I start them they germinate without any significant delays. Daylily seeds probably after ripen when stored dry-that is, even if they were dormant they lose their dormancy as time passes."
"After-ripening, i.e. a period of usually several months of dry storage at room temperature of freshly harvested, mature seeds, is a common method used to release dormancy and to promote germination." (Bewley, 1997; Finch-Savage and Leubner-Metzger, 2006; Kucera et al., 2005; Leubner-Metzger 2003)
To me that just sounds like seed dormancy wears off over a period of time.

sooby said: @plasko20 couldn't it be that they were duds to start with? Stratification shouldn't be "wet", the medium should just be as damp as you would use to start seeds normally (I assume they were taken out to germinate after about 4-6 weeks and not longer?). Dry chilling is not stratification but just storage. Mike Huben tested scarification as opposed to stratification and it worked well for him, so I tried it and it worked for me as well. My concern always with scarification for seeds like daylily that also respond to "gentler" methods is that it opens up the protective black phytomelanin coating and makes the seeds more vulnerable to pathogens. The seed coat on daylily seeds is not impermeable to water so there is no problem with their taking up water through it.

Damp and wet are the same thing to me, really. If I see condensation in the baggy I would use either term interchangeably. But definitely, they may have been duds to begin with. There would be no possible way to know otherwise. You are very correct, I waited 5 weeks each time. Again correct with the dry chilling the other seeds (which was months) prior to scarification.
Thanks for sharing on the scarification. It is something I definitely need to practice on. I have only really been successful with hibiscus seeds using that technique, daylily seeds was an act of pure desperation out of frustration. A last ditch effort that failed.
However, I can no longer practice as I got rid of all my spare seeds over the past few weeks. I will have to wait until the fall.

Seedfork said: Can someone discuss "after-ripening" of daylily seed to break dormancy?
I have a quote, but no name to go with it, "I do not cold moist stratify daylily seeds. I leave them at room temperature, dry in envelopes for months. When I start them they germinate without any significant delays.

I have done the same thing when I have started seeds (I do not start seeds indoors often - I have planted them directly outside in the ground in the autumn). The few times that I have started seeds inside it would have been in early spring and the seeds would have been collected the previous autumn. They have started in a week or two. I have not recorded the percentage of seeds that sprouted so it is impossible to know whether cold stratifying them would have been beneficial. Daylily seeds that are dormant may lose their dormancy after a time, but some seeds that can lose their dormancy with time can also then become dormant again. That may or may not be possible with daylily seeds since they do not tend to germinate if they are kept at room temperature for too long.

Seedfork,
I started the seeds about the middle of March and put them in a window that only gets Morning sun on them. I would guess the temperature never got over 75. I didn't have room in pots for all the seedlings that came up so 3 days ago I direct planted the rest outside without hardening them off. The temperature has dropped to the high 20's at night but I have found that daylilies are tough and usually survive at that temperature without any trouble. So far they all seem to be doing fine.

Maurice,
About how long is too long for daylily seed to be stored dry before they fail to germinate?

@seedfork Larry,
It will depend on exactly how the seeds are stored and how many are stored together in the same "container" and what the temperatures and relative humidity are.
I store mine in paper envelopes, in the basement. That means temperatures are below normal room temperature and relative humidity is above typical household humidity.
Under those conditions germination is okay for eight, perhaps to 12, months. After that it suffers.

Are you interested because you have old seeds?

Maurice, Thanks for the answer.
No old seeds, just interested. I toss out my old seeds, because I always have way too many and not enough room to plant them all. I have so many seedlings growing in pots and cups now waiting for a spot in the garden I may not do any crosses this year except for trying to check fertility in new plants, and those seeds may never get planted.

I appreciate all the responses, thank you to everyone. I always start seeds indoors, to give seedlings the best chance to get some growth before moving into the gardens - but also to (maybe) shave a year off the time I have to wait to see a first bloom. (Zone 3, after all.)

I still have seeds in cups that I was getting ready to toss (started back in Jaunary), since everything that has sprouted is now out in the greenhouse and will moved into the gardens as soon as weather improves. These all were dry stored, then stratified. Yes, some came up in a matter of days... some took several weeks. Great.

Then there are the stragglers... that pop up in two months. Every few days / at least once a week, another 'new' one (or more) shows up. That went on through the first three months, through March. Just about ready to toss everything else... and another popped up two days ago.

So, that was the dilemma - when is it time to quit?

Not sure whether to say 'fortunately' ... or 'unfortunately' ... I still have room in the gardens for more plants. (Cottage garden style, pack them in.) And that siren's mystical call: every daylily is unique... do I really want to toss 'the One?'

But sooner or later, yes: at some point, one has to call 'quit'... @Maurice made a great point, as to realistic viability of the seeds. There is a point at which, if nothing has resulted, you just have to write the seed off as a dud. My dilemma was trying to decide whether I had stragglers that just take a lot longer coming out of dormancy ... or seeds that are just plain not going to germinate. (And for clarity, none of the seeds I started with are 'old' - all came from last year.)

Overall, certain varieties gave 90% germination or better... and some were very poor, under 30%. On average, I would say I had better than 60% across the whole, but there were some disappointments. I do keep track of how many seeds / which parents vs. non-germination, so eventually I will have a pretty good idea which varieties not only produce seeds (pod / pollen fertile) but also have viable seeds (which, ultimately, to me is more important).

I have one daylily that has been remarkable... starts blooming here (again, zone 3) in the first week of July. Was blooming in August... bloomed in September... and was my last flowering daylily, all the way into the second week of October! It also produced nice pods and gave me 90% germination. So that's a group of seedlings I plan to keep a close eye on.

adknative said: These all were dry stored, then stratified. Yes, some came up in a matter of days... some took several weeks. Great.

It sounds like the stratification was not effective if some were taking several weeks to germinate after coming out of the fridge (that they germinated eventually at least shows they were viable). Were they chilled in hydrated condition at a bit above 32 degrees F for 4 weeks or so before taken out of the fridge for germination? It is typical for non-stratified daylily seeds to have some that germinate right away and some that drag it out over weeks or months. If they are not sufficiently hydrated for the chilling it will not work well.

On the topic of seed dormancy wearing off in dry storage, my first attempt with daylily seeds involved seeds stored over winter dry in paper bags at room temperature and then started on a warm windowsill around April. Germination was in the 90+% range. What's with all this stratification stuff I thought to myself, I'll prove to everyone it doesn't make a difference.

So the next time I split the seeds into two batches stratified one and not the other before starting them. Lo and behold the stratified ones were all up in a week or so after coming out of the fridge while the non-stratified germinated sporadically over several weeks. The two differences from April were that this was in fall so shorter dry storage, and possibly less sunshine on the windowsill.

I imparted this information to a daylily friend in Florida who said - good luck storing dry at room temperature in a hot humid climate like Florida.....

Griesbach's studies found keeping the dry seeds cool at 50 degrees F prolonged their longevity.

sooby said: I imparted this information to a daylily friend in Florida who said - good luck storing dry at room temperature in a hot humid climate like Florida.....

Interesting. I have pretty much assumed that in hot humid climates, like Florida, Texas, etc. there would be air conditioning and/or dehumidifiers to alleviate the heat and humidity indoors.