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Avatar for scvirginia
Jun 14, 2023 1:04 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Virginia , Köppen climate cl
South Carolina (Zone 8b)
Region: South Carolina
This record has confused an artificial hybrid, the Judd Viburnum, with one of its parents, V. carlesii var. bitchiuense:
Bitchiu Viburnum (Viburnum carlesii var. bitchiuense)

The parentage given is correct for the Judd Viburnum (sometimes sold as Viburnum x juddii), although V. bitchiuense is currently considered a synonym of V. carlesii var. bitchiuense.

Thank You!
Virginia
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Jun 14, 2023 10:29 AM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Thank you, Virginia. I've deleted the parentage info.
Avatar for scvirginia
Jun 14, 2023 12:14 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Virginia , Köppen climate cl
South Carolina (Zone 8b)
Region: South Carolina
Thank You!
I am wondering if all of the photos were of the parent species, or if any were of the Judd Viburnum, which is a hybrid.
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Jun 14, 2023 12:55 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
I don't know enough about Viburnums to recognize differences in the photos, but we're not going to create an entry for an artificial hybrid, and this variety is already sold as V. x juddii, so it doesn't seem like an illegitimate spot for the Judd photos.
Avatar for scvirginia
Jun 14, 2023 1:14 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Virginia , Köppen climate cl
South Carolina (Zone 8b)
Region: South Carolina
zuzu said: I don't know enough about Viburnums to recognize differences in the photos, but we're not going to create an entry for an artificial hybrid, and this variety is already sold as V. x juddii, so it doesn't seem like an illegitimate spot for the Judd photos.


I know what the difference is between a naturally occurring hybrid and an artificial one, but why is Judd's Viburnum different from any other hybrid cultivar?

If Judd's Viburnum is a species cross, and sold under that name, why keep it with the species it's descended from? I don't see any cases of them being sold interchangeably, so why not separate them in the database?
https://www.bluestoneperennial...
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/pl...
https://mortonarb.org/plant-an...
https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/...
https://www.missouribotanicalg...
https://landscapeplants.oregon...
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Jun 14, 2023 1:52 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
It's not being sold as a cultivar on any of your links, so we're not going to list it as a cultivar. It's an artificial hybrid and we don't have entries for those. At some point it was added to this entry as an also-sold-as name, so it apparently was being sold under the name. We don't judge the veracity or fallacy of also-sold-as names. Many of them are false, but we list them for informational purposes.
Avatar for scvirginia
Jun 14, 2023 2:44 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Virginia , Köppen climate cl
South Carolina (Zone 8b)
Region: South Carolina
Judd's Viburnum is a species cross, and is not the same as its parent.

Whether it's sold with single quotes around its name or not, it's still a different plant from V. carlesii var. bitchiuense, and is sold as such.

V. carlesii var. bitchiuense is an accepted species, whereas 'Judd's Viburnum' is a hybrid raised by William Judd at Arnold Arboretum in 1920. The Viburnum x juddii nomenclature is a quaint relic, but to my mind it is as much a cultivar as if the nurseries selling it went for the less dignified-sounding 'Judd's Viburnum'.

Just because someone somewhere once got them confused, it doesn't make sense to keep them together. As far as I can tell, they are not 'confused in commerce', they are only confused in the NGA database. Smiling
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