Hi Everyone....My rose plants have been in the ground for 4 weeks and on some of them ( Firefighter and Jacqueline du Pre) I have lots of buds. I gave them a good start with some living soil from Heirloom, bone meal, worm castings mixed with my soil. Is it too soon to put some Neptune liquid, 2-6-4, once they are finished blooming or should I stick with fish emulsion? I don't want to over fertilize them since they are so new, so, I'm not sure what to do here.

LittleAnnie said: Is it too soon to put some Neptune liquid, 2-6-4, once they are finished blooming or should I stick with fish emulsion?

Aren't they the same thing?

Pick a liquid, any liquid. Follow the directions and you can't go wrong.

Mike said: Aren't they the same thing?

The fish emulsion is 5-1-1. The Neptune is not fish emulsion, but, actual fertilizer.

CPPgardener said: Pick a liquid, any liquid. Follow the directions and you can't go wrong.

I gave the roses fish emulsion two weeks ago. None were blooming then. After they are finished blooming I want to know if it's okay to give them another feed with the Neptune or should I wait a bit. The Neptune is not organic...almost, but, not quite. I don't want to overkill.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CI33FDU/

Fish emulsion is fertilizer. The three numbers are the N-P-K ratio of the fertilizer (nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium), and all fertilizers display these numbers. The reason these numbers are relatively low for fish emulsion (compared to, say, Miracle Gro) is because it's a natural organic fertilizer, rather than a chemically manufactured synthetic fertilizer.

Neptune sells a variety of fertilizers under their brand name, and many of them include fish emulsion, or may be based on seaweed and other organic ingredients. The back label will tell you what the NPK are derived from, and fish emulsion may be listed there, depending on which product you have. That's why I suggested they are much the same thing, although the N-P-K ratios vary among individual products based on their components. Some of Neptune's products may include a combination of organic and non-organic components. I believe they may also sell certain products labeled as micronutrients that aren't technically fertilizer, because they are trace elements and minerals other than NPK.

Annie, unless they have changed, Heirloom recommends watering with 1/2 strength fish emulsion (only) every 2 wks. for their roses the first year after planting. These guidelines are also mandatory for a refund if the roses fail to thrive if that's where you bought them. They apparently have found what works best for their newly planted roses. Those were the instructions included in the rose they sent me.

reh0622 said: Annie, unless they have changed, Heirloom recommends watering with 1/2 strength fish emulsion (only) every 2 wks. for their roses the first year after planting. These guidelines are also mandatory for a refund if the roses fail to thrive if that's where you bought them. They apparently have found what works best for their newly planted roses. Those were the instructions included in the rose they sent me.

Thank you, reho622. The reason I wasn't sure what to use is because the Neptunes has better N P K for roses. I read that Heirloom wants only liquid fertilizers. I don't remember reading what you wrote above, but, it sounds good to me and now I know what to do. Thanks again!!

Mike said: Fish emulsion is fertilizer. The three numbers are the N-P-K ratio of the fertilizer (nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium), and all fertilizers display these numbers. The reason these numbers are relatively low for fish emulsion (compared to, say, Miracle Gro) is because it's a natural organic fertilizer, rather than a chemically manufactured synthetic fertilizer.

Neptune sells a variety of fertilizers under their brand name, and many of them include fish emulsion, or may be based on seaweed and other organic ingredients. The back label will tell you what the NPK are derived from, and fish emulsion may be listed there, depending on which product you have. That's why I suggested they are much the same thing, although the N-P-K ratios vary among individual products based on their components. Some of Neptune's products may include a combination of organic and non-organic components. I believe they may also sell certain products labeled as micronutrients that aren't technically fertilizer, because they are trace elements and minerals other than NPK.

I did scan through Neptune's different products and decided on the one I got because of the N P K. However, since they are so newly planted I wondered if that might have been a little too much for them. I have Alaskan fish emulsion, which, I used on them two weeks ago. I have read once roses bloom that it's a good time to feed them to give them energy to produce more buds. My concern was harming them with too much too soon. Thanks, Mike. You always take the time to explain well.

Change of mind.
I went onto Heirloom's site and read their recommendations. Yes, they do recommend their fish fertilizer, but, since they are selling it, I don't know just how important that is for the rose. The Neptune Rose and Flowering formula that I bought can be cut in half and be almost the same as Heirlooms formula. Neptune has lots of good organic stuff in it, too, so, I don't think it will harm the roses.

Ralph Moore's advice for feeding new roses was to feed lightly and often.

It's good to remember his nursery was open for 70 years. During most of that time people in the rose world recommend chemical fertilizers because it seemed like people believed roses could only thrive with specialized fertilizers.

Ralph was the person that told me, "roses can't read so you don't need to use specialized rose food." I love that concept.

When you feed plants any kind of fertilizer, either organic or chemical, you are actually feeding the soil bacteria. The soil bacteria have to break the fertilizer down into a form where the plant can take up the nutrients via reverse osmosis.

Some soils are incredibly fertile and you don't need to feed plants as often. While others, like mine which wouldn't even grow weeds when I started this garden, need more frequent applications of fertilizers.

Rose literature is directed more towards ideal situations, so you have to make adjustments for the soil in your garden.

Add to that, some roses are heavy feeders, while others seem to just pout if then are overfed. They put up soft growth and never seem to be solid plants.

Smiles,
Lyn

A bit of a correction to the above post. It's osmosis, not reverse osmosis. And fertilizers that contain nitrate and ammonium don't need to be broken down by soil bacteria; they are used directly by the plant. Soil bacteria break down more complex fertilizers to produce nitrate and ammonium. Those are the directly useable forms of nitrogen for plants. Other than that, Lyn's post was right on!

I can be very wrong, but here is a concept in my head came from different sources. At first, we have to distinct new bare root rose and potted rose. Bare root roses when shipped usually do not have tiny white roots, meaning that nutrients from soil/fertilizer cannot not be absorbed at this point. The purpose of feeding new bare root rose is to help rose developing those roots using stimulators and humic acid. In some sources it's not recommended to feed first year rose with any fertilizer assuming that the planting hole was prepared with the compost and bone meal.🙇‍♀️

Oh pish-tosh! Feed them as soon as they start growing and as frequently as the label says and enjoy gobs and gobs of beautiful blooms! It's worked great for us in the Kellogg Rose Garden on campus for years. We used to use Ortho 2-in-1 systemic once month and now we use Best 9-9-9. We've switched to spraying and drenching for thrips control on a schedule separate from feeding.

John, what are you doing for the thrips control, not getting your schedule? Not sure that I have them, but kinda suspicion.
Placed traps and ordered ladybugs.

RoseBlush1 said: Ralph Moore's advice for feeding new roses was to feed lightly and often.

It's good to remember his nursery was open for 70 years. During most of that time people in the rose world recommend chemical fertilizers because it seemed like people believed roses could only thrive with specialized fertilizers.

Ralph was the person that told me, "roses can't read so you don't need to use specialized rose food." I love that concept.

When you feed plants any kind of fertilizer, either organic or chemical, you are actually feeding the soil bacteria. The soil bacteria have to break the fertilizer down into a form where the plant can take up the nutrients via reverse osmosis.

Some soils are incredibly fertile and you don't need to feed plants as often. While others, like mine which wouldn't even grow weeds when I started this garden, need more frequent applications of fertilizers.

Rose literature is directed more towards ideal situations, so you have to make adjustments for the soil in your garden.

Add to that, some roses are heavy feeders, while others seem to just pout if then are overfed. They put up soft growth and never seem to be solid plants.

Smiles,
Lyn

Thanks, Lyn, My soil is pretty decent. When I grew roses 25 years ago I added nothing to the soil when I planted them...used Miracle Grow to feed them and they did fine. However, they didn't do great, so, my soil does need some help and why I think cutting the Neptune formula in half will be okay. The roses I'm concerned about feeding are hybrid teas and they are blooming a lot for only being in the ground for 4 weeks. I have read Firefighter is a heavy feeder because of how much it blooms and I imagine Jacqueline might be too. She is blooming the most...9 buds on one plants and 7 on the other.

Elena999 said: I can be very wrong, but here is a concept in my head came from different sources. At first, we have to distinct new bare root rose and potted rose. Bare root roses when shipped usually do not have tiny white roots, meaning that nutrients from soil/fertilizer cannot not be absorbed at this point. The purpose of feeding new bare root rose is to help rose developing those roots using stimulators and humic acid. In some sources it's not recommended to feed first year rose with any fertilizer assuming that the planting hole was prepared with the compost and bone meal.🙇‍♀️

All my roses are own root, Elena, and they have doubled their growth since planting them 4 weeks ago. I did put bone meal, worm castings and a bagged organic soil that has all sorts of good stuff in it. I mixed this with the native soil so they have gotten a good start. My concern in starting this thread was not to over feed them, so, I appreciate all the posters in here giving advice.

CPPgardener said: Oh pish-tosh! Feed them as soon as they start growing and as frequently as the label says and enjoy gobs and gobs of beautiful blooms! It's worked great for us in the Kellogg Rose Garden on campus for years. We used to use Ortho 2-in-1 systemic once month and now we use Best 9-9-9. We've switched to spraying and drenching for thrips control on a schedule separate from feeding.

I do want to stay as organic as possible. What I chose isn't organic, but, has lots of organic material in it. I've gone out very every morning and taken off aphids and white flies, plus I spray them with a good blast of water and the leaves look good.
Thank you, John.

The thrips are Chilli Thrips which are microscopic and attack the buds, both growth and flowering, and do horrible things to the plants. Fortunately for you they are cold-sensitive and probably won't be a problem there.

CPPgardener said: Oh pish-tosh! Feed them as soon as they start growing and as frequently as the label says and enjoy gobs and gobs of beautiful blooms! It's worked great for us in the Kellogg Rose Garden on campus for years. We used to use Ortho 2-in-1 systemic once month and now we use Best 9-9-9.

John, that might work for newly planted Grade 1, two-year old roses that have been grafted onto mature root stock, especially if the roses are planted in the garden as actively growing potted specimens as opposed to bare root plants that are still dormant. But what we are discussing here are new "baby" rose plants growing on their own tiny roots, sold by providers such as Heirloom Roses. If you were to use a potent synthetic fertilizer that uses salts to deliver readily-available NPK, you could easily burn the roots of baby plants. There's a reason why doing this would void the warranty offered by Heirloom Roses for their young own-root roses.