I got this plant for my 10 year old son as I thought it would be relatively easy to look after (mistakenly obviously!). We planted it in a cactus mixture inside a small terracota pot with large drainage hole. My son's bedroom is in the attic so we put it on a shelf under the velux window (which is on the north side of the roof so gets a lot of light and some direct sun in the morning). It was doing well, growing nicely and we were watering it so that water came through the drainage holes and then waiting until the soil felt dry before watering again. I just went to check on it, the soil felt very dry and when I went to gently touch the leaves they fell off! It was last watered about a week ago but we've had a couple of days of very humid weather and the attic does get very warm. Has it been baked?! If not, what have we done wrong? I've just watered it and taken it out of the attic...will it rejuvenate or am I doing palliative care here?

Put it in front of a window where the sun hits the plant for hours a day and it may recover. I'm not quite sure what went wrong but strong light should help. That north facing window will not provide enough light during the darker half of the year, and it may not even provide enough light now. Ideally the plant should "see" the sun. That will also aid with watering.

Your plant has a very small, fine root system that can tolerate drought but not constantly damp soil. The pot is too big and the potting mix lacks porous material such as perlite mixed throughout. That means the soil lacks porosity, stays wet for too long and the roots are suffocating. Heat and light are not problems.

You might consider carefully unpotting the plant and gently removing most of the soil and any dead roots. If there are still some live roots remaining, repot it into a very small pot with a potting mix of 3 parts peat moss and one part perlite. Keep that mix barely damp while roots are forming. Warm temps and lots of indoor sun will help.

Baja_Costero said:Put it in front of a window where the sun hits the plant for hours a day and it may recover. I'm not quite sure what went wrong but strong light should help. That north facing window will not provide enough light during the darker half of the year, and it may not even provide enough light now. Ideally the plant should "see" the sun. That will also aid with watering.

Thanks, I'll put it on a south facing window sill, although it still won't get hours of sun here in Ireland! The attic window does get very strong light as it's literally in the roof so its not like a vertical north facing window Anyway, we can hope for a recovery

That will be an improvement.

Now is not the time to unpot the plant, during a time of stress. The last thing I would think to do at this time is mess with the roots.

How do you know the pot is too big, Will? Do you know how big the plant was before it lost its leaves? Do you know its potential size?

In the original post Aphria said she was waiting until the soil was dry. That should be the right time to water. It's important not to just check the surface, though. I would poke a couple of inches below the surface when you check for soil moisture, as the surface layer dries out much sooner than the soil at depth, which is what counts.

WillC said:Your plant has a very small, fine root system that can tolerate drought but not constantly damp soil. The pot is too big and the potting mix lacks porous material such as perlite mixed throughout. That means the soil lacks porosity, stays wet for too long and the roots are suffocating. Heat and light are not problems.

You might consider carefully unpotting the plant and gently removing most of the soil and any dead roots. If there are still some live roots remaining, repot it into a very small pot with a potting mix of 3 parts peat moss and one part perlite. Keep that mix barely damp while roots are forming. Warm temps and lots of indoor sun will help.

Thank you. The soil was actually bone dry right down as far down as my finger would go and it is a light cactus mix that seemed to be draining well. I'll put it in a smaller pot with perlite and hope it improves.

Hmmm to repot or not to repot

Not sure if this gives a better perspective on pot size but it really was doing well. It feels like it was a sudden impact that occurred!

I have grown a few hundred Echeverias here including as indoor plants so I have some experience with the genus.

The pot size is fine for now. Make sure to empty the saucer after you water. True, the soil should be faster draining, like regular potting soil (or compost if that's what you call it across the pond, the product for potted plants) with an equal amount of perlite, pumice, or lava rock mixed in. If you can remove the plant without disturbing any roots, like it just pops out and the extra soil falls away, great. But you really don't want to be messing with the roots while the plant is in crisis. Definitely keep root manipulation to a minimum.

Whatever you do, be very careful not to water right after repotting or handling the roots in any way... wait a week to water.

Hello Aphria, there is still potential for your echeveria. The first thing I notice is that very rich media. I always make echeveria media very coarse and gritty. Sometimes echeveria gets finicky too, when it feels too hot around, it enters into some sort of dormancy, so it is at this point that it gets tricky in watering it. I just let the older leaves fall off.

The attic area may be nicer in cool weather, but it may be baking hot in summer.

Don't lose hope, I have baked some of my echeverias here too, due to our excessive dry conditions, but it responds by growing new rosettes anywhere up and down the stem, or do new basal growth. As long as that stem stays firm, no rotted part, it may still recover.

I don't like disturbing the plant too in summer, but sometimes exceptions arise such as in yours, I would try to make that media much more grittier. Try your best not to damage the fine root system. Once you have made the media grittier, just let it be, do not water yet, give it a few more days. Part sun position indoors, not north side, that is too weak. Be very patient. Good luck!

Thank you very much! Was I mistaken that cactus mix is a light, well-draining soil? It is a very lose mixture that I can put my finger in very easily...much lighter than the houseplant soil that I use generally. It was also dry right the way through to the bottom before I watered it. I think it looks dark and dense in the photo because it was literally just watered. Of course, I will follow your advice given the wealth of experience though and obviously something went badly wrong! Thanks so much!

It really sounds like you are watering exactly as you should. Here are the boundaries to stay within. There is no benefit to allowing the soil to stay bone dry for any extended period of time. (Underwatering.) There is however a risk of rot if you water before the soil has had a chance to go dry or near dry at depth. (Overwatering.) Imagine a cycle of properly (dripping) wet and properly dry (at finger depth) and that's where your plant will be happiest. Be aware that in the darker and colder days of late fall and early winter, you probably will have to cut back on how often you water.

There are as many cactus mixes as you can imagine, but as a general rule they should drain fast (not hold onto a lot of water) and have gritty components, not fine ones. I have used a variety of dedicated cactus mixes but at this point I use regular potting soil, mixed with pumice. I have some plants doing fine in an all-organic mix from the days back when I didn't cut the soil with extra rock. Some Echeverias aren't real particular about drainage. But as a general rule they like about 50% rock. That simplifies the watering too, as the soil dries out faster and more predictably.

Baja_Costero said:It really sounds like you are watering exactly as you should. Here are the boundaries to stay within. There is no benefit to allowing the soil to stay bone dry for any extended period of time. (Underwatering.) There is however a risk of rot if you water before the soil has had a chance to go dry or near dry at depth. (Overwatering.) Imagine a cycle of properly (dripping) wet and properly dry (at finger depth) and that's where your plant will be happiest. Be aware that in the darker and colder days of late fall and early winter, you probably will have to cut back on how often you water.

There are as many cactus mixes as you can imagine, but as a general rule they should drain fast (not hold onto a lot of water) and have gritty components, not fine ones. I have used a variety of dedicated cactus mixes but at this point I use regular potting soil, mixed with pumice. I have some plants doing fine in an all-organic mix from the days back when I didn't cut the soil with extra rock. Some Echeverias aren't real particular about drainage. But as a general rule they like about 50% rock. That simplifies the watering too, as the soil dries out faster and more predictably.

Thanks so much for the info...its definitely a fine soil so I think I will attempt to take it out and mix in the perlite. The stem itself looks healthy and the leaves that fell off still looked nice and succulent (pic below). Fingers crossed

Ok, so I repotted it into a slightly smaller pot with houseplant soil and perlite. It lost another couple of leaves in the process, it's so fragile. I put some of the leaves that fell off into the soil with it...any point in doing this? Is there a chance they'll propagate?

Lay them on top of the soil, not buried in it, and there is a chance they will sprout new rosettes.

Baja_Costero said:Lay them on top of the soil, not buried in it, and there is a chance they will sprout new rosettes.

I put them on the soil with convex side facing up...does it matter?

As long as the base of the leaf (where the babies will sprout) is touching the soil, various positions will work.

Hi Aphria, looks good, ideally I prefer to twist off leaves not yet showing signs of stress. I also do similarly, I try to see if the fallen leaves will still try to grow, sometimes there is still good energy left on the leaves that suddenly broke off on its own.

I am going to show you how some succulents go very resilient as it tries to recover:
My Graptoveria, lost a lot of its leaves due to ongoing powdery mildew issues, but it is now on recovery phase, new growth on the stem:


Echeveria Black Prince - got bad winter damage, and then got exposed too to our sizzling hot and dry summer temps. I maintained just gentle watering on it, enough to keep the roots alive, cannot do thorough deep watering like I used to since we get into too hot and dry condition, at that point succulents will just shut down and wait it out for conditions to improve before it resumes active growing.

It has done new basal growth and on the top part where there is now some exposed stem at the center, new rosette growth is slowly growing too. I think I may end up losing the older remaining leaves, but will just let them fizzle out on its own. It is still providing energy to the plant. Hopefully by the time all those older leaves are gone, the new rosette at the tip and at the base will be much more mature.

Wow, that's amazing that they can show such resilience! We can continue to hope that all is not lost here...I will keep you posted...with good news hopefully!

I would suggest getting an inexpensive LED plant light. I purchased one on Amazon for around $20! It has a clip on base three separate lights that can be manipulated into any position and has a timer and three choices of light color, just red just blue and then the most popular purple. My plants have done a total turnaround they love it!