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Avatar for dindixie
Jan 15, 2019 8:34 AM CST

Oh, SQWIBBER, your prickly lettuce looks a lot like wild lettuce. If it is, did you know that it is a natural pain reliever? Just fyi...
Avatar for dindixie
Jan 15, 2019 10:05 AM CST

My permaculture endeavors right now consist of mainly composting, adding more perennials to my garden, seed saving, and having a sawdust toilet upstairs in my barn.

I own a copy of T. Hemenway's "Gaia's Garden" and have read a bunch online.

Some of the ideas I have /things on my dream list:
-Erosion control/slope terracing
-Permanant raised deep beds for perennials - asparagus, sunchokes, stinging nettle, oca, etc...
-Organic certification
-A fruit orchard modeled on the Gaia's Garden concept
-A 4-year rotation of large bins composting matter for the chickens to work and feed from, covering the bin with chicken wire after a year's working to let the resultant mulch age for 3 years prior to use
-A south-facing rabbit shelter, growing redworms under hanging cages, using banana trees to provide hot-season shade, and planting semi-tropicals on the southern side
-Growing duckweed to shelter my 80gal rainwater catch/goldfish tub, and using excess duckweed to feed my chickens
-Raising mealworms to boost protein for my chickens
-Diverting greywater from the house to water orchards
-Setting up a rainwater catchment system off our large barn roof to use for pasture and orchard watering during dry spells.
- Bees!

Not sure how many of these will come to fruition. Also, since the Gulf Coast is a bit different, climate-wise from most of my reading sources, trying to figure out what will work well for me and encompass as wide a harvest span as possible has been a bit challenging.

On a more immediate note, I do plan to grow a Three Sisters garden this year. Smiling
Avatar for Shadegardener
Jan 15, 2019 10:37 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
dindixie - Wow - lots of goals! I live in a wooded subdivision, backing up on wetlands/creek and my lot slopes down in the back. First thing I did was strive to control erosion. I did it via groundcovers that were available at the time like ivy, wintercreeper. Not the best choice but all that was available 30 years ago. Not a lot of space or sun for loftier endeavors. I do have 3 rainbarrels and try to do mixed veg planting with all of the perennials and shrubs already in the ground. Don't grow enough veg to preserve but can supply some fresh eating during the warmer months. Haven't gotten around to doing hugel beds but I do use shredded oak leaves for mulch and larger fallen branches to help hold the hillsides from washing away. Would love to do hugel beds but would have to dig up lots of plants and shrubs which would be challenging. No clean slate here.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
Avatar for RpR
Jan 16, 2019 11:17 AM CST
Name: Dr. Demento Jr.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
Good for you Squibb; you are a dedicated gardener.
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Jan 18, 2019 2:02 PM CST
Philly (Zone 7a)
dindixie said:Oh, SQWIBBER, your prickly lettuce looks a lot like wild lettuce. If it is, did you know that it is a natural pain reliever? Just fyi...



I never saw wild lettuce in my garden but get a lot of the prickly lettuce.


Thumb of 2019-01-18/SQWIBBER/8545ec
The more I learn the more I worry, Ignorance is bliss!
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Apr 26, 2019 10:44 AM CST
Name: Christie
Central Ohio 43016 (Zone 6a)
Plays on the water.
Amaryllis Permaculture Sempervivums Roses Bookworm Annuals
Composter Hybridizer Cat Lover Garden Ideas: Master Level
I started no-till practices as a teenager - mostly out of laziness and physical weakness. It seemed to work, so I also started layering. That seemed to work too. Who knew I was doing it correctly all along. Hilarious! I now live in a condo, so everything is scaled down. My compost resides in an big pot that a tree once came in. Earth worms crawl up into it and start baby nurseries. I have just recently learned about using bio-char, and now I am making some. Point is, even with a tiny space, we can still do this stuff. I might not be able to do that much, but I keep doing it, adding stuff as I learn more. At the very least, I will leave the area around my condo much, much better than I found it. So keep right on talking, people, and I will keep right on reading and learning - thanks! Thank You! Group hug
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
Avatar for phlday
Aug 7, 2019 9:11 AM CST
Name: Phil
Columbus, OH (Zone 6a)
Permaculture
I can't agree more about taking it one small change at time. See what works and do more of it. I started out composting 8 or 9 years ago when I started vegetable gardening. I'm on a small city lot in Columbus, OH (Christie, we're nearly neighbors) but I added almost 100 sq ft of vegetable garden beds this spring and I'm adding more perennials this fall to help attract more pollinators. I'm trying to make sure that everything I add serves multiple purposes. Implementing permaculture principles can be a little overwhelming, but the results have been worth it so far.
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Aug 7, 2019 10:26 AM CST
Name: Christie
Central Ohio 43016 (Zone 6a)
Plays on the water.
Amaryllis Permaculture Sempervivums Roses Bookworm Annuals
Composter Hybridizer Cat Lover Garden Ideas: Master Level
@phlday - nice to meet another person from Columbus!! nodding Hurray!
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
Avatar for SkirtGardener
Dec 3, 2020 6:44 PM CST
Name: SkirtGardener
Central Pennsylvania (Zone 5a)
Life is a Miracle! Fueled by Love.
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Organic Gardener Composter Permaculture Farmer Region: Northeast US
Japanese Maples Fruit Growers Clematis Peonies Bulbs Dog Lover
I only just looked up the definition of Permaculture yesterday... then discovered the great resources of PermacultureApprentice.com, and took the free design courses they linked to at PermacultureReflections.com . Some really neat ideas! This is right along the lines of what I've always wanted to do (be healthy with Mother Nature), but didn't really know enough to do quickly or effectively.

Already I've been working on setting up lots of year-round blooms in my yard that would be helpful to pollinators, and learning the practicalities of how to propagate and make such choices available to others as well. But we also have a 24/7 stream we could tap into for sprinkler use (just thought of this earlier this week!) that would make watering so much nicer on the budget. And I've been building raised beds over the native clay using a mix of mushroom soil and 100% ground bark... which happens to be right along the lines of what's recommended for best tree and shrub growth (lots of fungal action as different than bacteria). Of course, more and more I've strongly preferred organic practices in the first place. Finally, we're looking into getting bees soon, and setting up a tree farm a few years after that... and so designing everything with all this in mind is pretty exciting.

The ideas of how to do this most effectively are fascinating! And again, -healthy- for the whole world as well as us. Thanks everyone for sharing via this forum and your efforts!
Learning to work with Mother Nature rather than against her, such that the more I harvest with thankfulness, the more she will most gladly and willingly provide.
Specializing in a full spectrum variety of trees and shrubs, occasionally with perennials as an incidental bonus.
Avatar for VermontBarb
Nov 4, 2021 8:46 AM CST
Vermont
I just learned that there was such a thing as Permaculture last winter while I was trying to solve an issue of my neighbors never taking care of their leaves, allowing them to all blow onto my lawn. I can almost hear people shouting, "But why would you not be happy with all of those leaves?" If they were maple, I wouldn't have such an issue. They break down and are easy to deal with; oak take forever to break down, and there are so many! I have a ten cubic foot wheelbarrow, and I would mulch them as best I could with my electric lawnmower and leaf blower. Still, I would have to make about seven heaping loads to the far back every time I went out, and I'm a 62 year old woman with heart failure. I had planted many bulbs such as crocus, snowdrops, scilla and daffodils that I wanted to enjoy come spring, but they would never see the light of day with such a heavy, dense leaf pack. I was researching some sort of hedge that I could plant near the sidewalk, and this is when I must have stumbled onto the idea of food forests. As I was reading and watching everything I could find, I just kept thinking, "Of course; this makes such perfect sense!" I'd been dancing on the fringes for years, but never thought to put all of my edibles together, nor had I realized the variety available to me. I had planted grapes on a chain link fence around the pool and hardy kiwi on a pergola. I had planted cherries, pears, a peach and 50 blueberries, but each was in its own area. The property came with apple trees, probably original to the property and I would assume about 150 years old! The ones that remain are hollow, yet this past year was a bumper year!
I live on a highway and there are sidewalks, so I need it to be attractive. I stumbled on Regent serviceberries, and that was the beginning! I have at least 120' of sidewalk, and I had planted perpendicularly down the property line previously with plants in hopes of blocking some of the oak leaves that would be left to blow over. As I'd said, last year, and every year, I paid to have them mulched twice and I had gone out and raked seven times...an all-day event each time. I finally resorted to planting spreading yews on the far side of the bed last year, but they are still too small to block much of anything. I have a doublefile and Korean Spice viburnum, Leonard Messill magnolia, kousa dogwood, rhodos and various other plants and bulbs filling in the nooks and crannies. (I finally got up the courage to taste the kousa fruit this past fall. I'm in love! I wish I had known about and tried it sooner!) It is a beautiful bed in which I'd spent a fortune in efforts to combat the leaf issue!
Anyway, back to the new garden that connects perpendicularly to the one I just described. I spent the rest of last winter researching and tracking down plants to find everything that would be hardy in my zone 5A. I got everything I wanted to start with by ordering though six different reliable nurseries. That felt like quite a juggling act! Even ordering in December, many were already sold out for the upcoming year...hence, the number of places I needed to order through. I researched how to get rid of so much lawn...if you've ever removed sod, you know it can be a slow, tedious process, especially if you wish to leave the soil: for that first garden I wrote about, it took me over a week of cutting squares, picking them up, and shaking out the dirt, and that was a tiny area compared to what was in front of me! I was working against time, as the plants were due to start arriving at any time! With the new bed, I couldn't take the time to do sheet mulching; I found a device called a "sod cutter" that I could rent for the day. With delivery and pickup, it cost me about $200, but it was the best money I spent! A neighbor offered to help run the machine, and I followed him and rolled up the cut sod to bring to the back of the property for composting. In a few hours, I had an area cleared that measured 120'x15' averaged out. It is semi-circular on the non-sidewalk side, and it joins up with the 'dogwood' garden. It is southern exposure.
So, I planted 28 Regent serviceberry about three or four feet away from the sidewalk the total length, spacing them every three or four feet. They only get to about 4-5' tall, so it should be tidy and friendly looking. Behind those, I planted 50 asparagus. On the shadier western side (Remember my neighbor's oak?!) I planted many currants, gooseberries, a jostaberry, lingonberry, honeyberries, a rhubarb, cherry, paw paw, medlar, quince and persimmon trees. (Fight fire with fire!) I also added in some flowering plants such as catmint and daylilies, daffodils and crocus...many more will be added next year...I already have the seeds! At the narrow center part of the semicircle, I will have an arch with climbing roses. I had some bluestone that I took from another place on the property to lay as a walkway underneath. The roses are ordered and will arrive in the spring, and the arch is on the back porch...There is a potential theft problem so I am holding out on putting it in place until I have the roses which might deter anyone stealing it.
On the other side, which is edged by the driveway, I planted a little herb garden that forms a triangle with the driveway and sidewalk on two of the sides. The fifty asparagus extend around to follow the driveway, but are at least two feet in to avoid the gravelly stuff used in the making of the driveway. I plan to plant flowers between the driveway and asparagus for the insects, fragrance and beauty. I have 4 dwarf mulberries, three dwarf apples, two more paw paws, an Autumn Brilliance serviceberry (that I had planted prior to knowing about permaculture), I have more honeyberries and have used strawberries as a ground cover. I planted 50, and the number of runners they have sent out has been remarkable. I had had mint in my herb section, but I was nervous that it would overrun everything, so I moved it out back, and put it in a rotted out and hollowed apple tree stump. I planted two Carmine goumi berries, but they were my only fatalities. I will replace them this spring; I am already on the lookout for them. I transplanted some yarrow and other flowers into this bed as well.
Out back, I planted two elderberries, two more persimmon and four hazelnuts. Although I love raspberries, I am looking to avoid high maintenance plants. These I'd be willing to go pick on someone else's property! I think I will have enough to offer in trade!
Because of the timing, I did not have time to track down woodchips; instead, I ordered eight cubic yards of mulch. That was all the delivery truck could hold. I could have used double that amount, but cost was becoming a factor. Now that the big expenses and hard labor are behind me, I can take the winter to reflect.
What's that permaculture motto? There are no problems, only solutions? So true! I had been raking my neighbor's leaves for fifteen years and for equally as long, I'd been asking them every spring to please take care of them. This past fall, after planting the yews, I decided to put up a temporary fence of 3' chicken wire. Before I did that, but after again raking and paying to have them mulched, I parted the leaves so that I could stake the chicken wire. The forty year old neighbor came stomping over stating how he had spoken to the town and his lawyer! How dare I rake any leaves over on his yard!!!! Meanwhile, they hadn't done anything, and they have a ride-on mower! That was the final straw; that is when I started looking into hedges, and that led me into Permaculture. I couldn't be happier...and, I will have a little chuckle when my persimmon trees grow and some of the leaves fall onto my neighbor's side!
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Apr 13, 2022 3:54 PM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
Shadegardener said: Some are even experimenting with more of a level hugel bed rather than the raised mounds.


This is an awesome idea! It gives me a similar idea of sunken areas to make sure plants get enough water. That's always such a challenge during a run of 95° days of no rain for a couple of months. One could let sunken areas fill without fear of "accidentally watering the lawn." Always a fear of mine, hate that grass!
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
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Avatar for VermontBarb
Feb 4, 2023 10:02 AM CST
Vermont
BillAlleysDLs said: Thanks, spot composting is a good idea. I've tried coffee grounds on lilium; attempting to disciurage the lily beedle. I have the Gaia's Garden and Will Bonsall's Essential Guide to Radical, Self-Reliant Growing. All full of overwelming ideas. As you suggest - a little here and there and keep reading. Thanks again for your response.


It is easy to get overwhelmed! It is such a big learning curve to try and absorb every aspect. I subscribe to Canadian Permaculture Legacy on YouTube. Keith really seems to know his stuff, and he backs it with research, but explains concepts in such a great way. He uses amazing similes that allow you to grasp what he's explaining. Check it out. I originally gravitated to it because I figured the climate was very similar, if not colder than it is where I live. There are a lot of videos out of Australia or Florida, but I can't really use much of that information...

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