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Apr 29, 2019 4:03 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
They are both certainly gorgeous!
...... as Ursula thinks of her "encounter" with that awesome Lycaste.... Smiling
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May 18, 2019 4:05 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Okay everyone, it was judging time again today so time for my next post.
My team mate told me "just how great it was to judge with you Bill!" So that got me off on the right foot for sure.
Anyways, here is the first plant we looked at today. It is Paphiopedilum Lady Isabel which is Paphiopedilum stonei X Paphiopedilum rothschildianum. These are two gorgeous species in their own right but Lady Isabel has some 80+ awards.


This plant measured 22.4cm. wide by 15.3cm. vertical. There were 4 flowers on a 50cm. tall inflorescence. Flowers were a creamy ivory base color dorsal sepal broad and erect with excellent, clear chocolate stripes veined green apically. Synsepal was almost as broad andcstriped chocolate as well. Petals measured 1.3cm. wide flushed green with chocolate tips, spotted mahogany with cilia on margins. Pouch was flushed and veined old rose. It got an 83 point AM!!
With so many previous awards, this had to be specialnand it was. Dorsal was not hooded like so many stonei hybrids are, markings were very crisp and clear. Could have had a fourth flower for a higher award but it was beautiful. This was a single growth plant in a 6" plastic pot!!
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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May 18, 2019 4:27 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
This next one was a species Paphiopedilum, Paphiopedilum haynaldianum, often confused with lowii.
Thumb of 2019-05-18/BigBill/15c4be

This candidate had seven flowers on two inflorescences and measured 15.8cm. wide by 11cm. tall. This clone presented "greener then most" and flushed rose on apical ends of the petals and dorsal. And it had more burgundy spots and blotches then most haynaldianums. It was very attractive however the apical flower on each inflorescence looked "crisp", perhaps moved outdoors into too much sun a little too quickly?
My team really liked this plant but our hands are tied. We can't really consider an award with a damaged flower on each spike. If one spike featured undamaged flowers, well maybe, but as is, we had to pass on it!
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill May 18, 2019 4:30 PM Icon for preview
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May 18, 2019 4:41 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Now here is a plant for all Cattleya lovers out there. Also a great plant for those of us who like coeruleas or blue flowers. My team did NOT evaluate this but it got an 83 point AM!


This candidate had 5 flowers on a single inflorescence, kind of a dusky white color, almost 7 1/2" wide of very good form. Almost no twisting of the dorsal was seen and the petals and lip were well held and proportional. Notice the Smokey-blue tubular lip and a Smokey-blue flare centrally on each petal. Absolutely stunning! Breathtaking! Magnificent! Am I going too far? This was quite a plant. What is it you ask?
It is Laelia, now Cattleya purpurata var. Werkhauseri.
It was grown in a 6" pot, in a mixture of bark, charcoal and orchiata. Enjoy! I was just thrilled to see it. If I had done the research, I might have pointed it higher but who knows. I just go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs when I see an orchid like this!! Will you take note of the darker blue purple veining in that lip. Reminds of a cross between an orchid and maybe a morning glory.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill May 18, 2019 4:45 PM Icon for preview
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May 18, 2019 5:03 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
I always love a good L. purpurata! Very nice, Bill! And the Paphiopedilum haynaldianum is total charmer despite some crispy blooms.
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May 20, 2019 11:56 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
This plant was not awarded. My team inquired as to why. The response was "it was a little small!"
This is Paphiopedilum chamberlainianum var. liemianum


I saw this come into the room and the plant caught my attention. It had three flowers down low and two more on a taller inflorescence.
The creamy yellow background with a dorsal intensely striped mahogany suffused dark green centrally was very pretty. Petals a little lighter, slightly twisted with dark, almost black, coarse hairs with dark mahogany spots and stripes, all set off my a rose pink pouch that had an intense almost canary yellow rim. The staminode was a deep, dark green color.
It is a shame. Now I was not on the team, did not do any of the research, so I am speaking aside, I thought it was beautiful. Maybe next time?
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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May 20, 2019 4:03 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
It sure is very cute! Charming!
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May 20, 2019 7:46 PM CST
Name: Ted DeWitt
Brea, CA (Zone 10b)
Orchids Container Gardener Butterflies Plumerias Hummingbirder Growing under artificial light
Dog Lover Tropicals Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Herbs Garden Ideas: Level 1 Cactus and Succulents
Bill,
That flower is gorgeous. Was the smaller issue just a judges opinion or is there a standard
Showing up is 88% of life
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May 21, 2019 1:12 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
No, we measure each and every flower and compare it to recent awards. The AOS judging software gives us the total number of flowers per inflorescence for all awards. We get average natural spread, dorsal width and length, etc.
So if the average size was say 7.0cm. Wide by 6.2cm. vertical, we consider where the candidate falls. In this case if the candidate comes in as 6.5 X 5.8, we might say that it is a little small. Some judges see it as the "be all and end all" when looking at a flower when in reality size is only 10 points on the score sheet. What should happen is instead of 9 points being awarded for size, a judge should score it say 7or 8 points for size deducting one point for being a little small.
However if it has superior form, roundness and fullness, and the color is deeper and more vibrant, extra points could and should be given for those attributes.
In short, we use a 100 point scale, 30 for form, 30 for color and 40 for spike and inflorescence points. It sounds complicated but then that is what our training and experience teaches us!
FOR EXAMPLE when I saw that Paphiopedilum Lady Isabel came to my team, my experience told me that this flower was awardable! Then research confirmed my initial opinion. We openly discus our opinions on what is good and bad about a plant/flower. In that case I nominated the plant for a Flower Quality Award. We scored it according to the 100 point scale, it scored an 81, and 86 and my 83. That is an 83.3 average so it got an 83 point AM! Which in this case was exactly what my score was!!! And going back to when I first saw it come to the table my experience and knowledge told me that this was and "low AM point flower!" And damn if I wasn't right!! Group hug Hurray!
YES nodding
I hope that this rambling pile of bs makes some sense to you??
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill May 21, 2019 1:15 AM Icon for preview
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May 21, 2019 5:50 AM CST
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Orchids Photo Contest Winner 2021 Photo Contest Winner 2023
I find it fascinating, Bill. I like how the whole team privately comes up with their score and then all the numbers are averaged together. It seems like a really fair way to consider each judges different opinions . That is a pretty plant and gorgeous flower!
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May 21, 2019 6:24 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
To insure fairness to the owner/exhibitor, we are required to score within a six point range. Like 77 to 83. If the spread or difference is greater then 6, we are asked to reconsider our scores. If we still can't get within six points, the plant gets evaluated by another team. Then team one is out of it and team two's score counts.
Once in range, the scores are averaged. If you are a good judge, a fair judge, an intelligent evaluator of orchids you should rarely score out of range. You on occasion can be asked to defend your opinion or score. Rare but it happens.
If I happen to score a plant out of range, I feel horrible, I feel like I made a mistake in my evaluation. Which is exactly what I did. So I re-evaluate that score and think of where I went wrong.
But not to toot my own horn, I can't remember the last time that I nominated a plant and it wasn't awarded and that is the way it should be. All judges bring their own biases to the table but your biases are yours and they should not be forced upon the other members of the team.
But for that judge to tell me that he enjoys every time that he judges on a team with me because I am fair, concise, brief and to the point AND I know my stuff and am a good evaluator of orchids..... that is what makes me very happy!! I am doing my job the best that I can and my talent and knowledge is recognized and acknowledged. Oh boy, there goes my ego!!! I tip my hat to you.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill May 21, 2019 6:26 AM Icon for preview
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May 21, 2019 6:42 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
Bill, I am enjoying the looksee into the world of Orchid judging! This is great! Thumbs up
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May 21, 2019 7:58 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
If any one has any questions about judging, just ask.

Thanks Ursula! Means a great deal coming from you.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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May 21, 2019 12:53 PM CST
Name: Ted DeWitt
Brea, CA (Zone 10b)
Orchids Container Gardener Butterflies Plumerias Hummingbirder Growing under artificial light
Dog Lover Tropicals Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Herbs Garden Ideas: Level 1 Cactus and Succulents
Thank You! Thanx, Bill. Nice to know that a lot of effort has gone into judging orchids and setting up the system
Showing up is 88% of life
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Jun 15, 2019 6:56 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Today the Great Lakes Judging Center held its annual Judging Seminar. It features AOS Judging, Speakers, sales, silent auction, auction and FUN!!
This year's theme was Cattleyas.
More on the event later.
But first let me get to a wonderful plant that came to the judging table. This is Cypripedium Phillipe which is Cypripedium micranthos X Cypripedium kentuckiense.



Now micranthos has 3" round flowers with a color ranging from medium-deep mauve rose to a much darker shade of mauve rose becoming almost like a deep rose-burgundy color. Very hard to describe. This was crossed with kentuckiense with is basically a deep cinnamon brown flower with pale yellow to bright yellow segments. Some are pale and other clones are darker, richer and more striking!
This plant had 23 flowers and buds and was grown in a 3 gallon nursery pot. Leaves plicate reminiscent of Phaius leaves.
Flowers generally 3 1/2" or so, creamy white dorsal with deep mauve rose veins, hooded; petals slightly twisted, creamy white basally, spotted rose mauve, solid rose mauve for the remainder. Pouch ivory, finely and coarsest spotted rose mauve, spots reach deep inside pouch, staminode cream yellow blushed olive green. This was simply gorgeous!!
AM/AOS of 81 points AND a 91 point CCE!! Two awards that I concur with 110%.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Jun 15, 2019 6:59 PM Icon for preview
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Jun 15, 2019 8:03 PM CST
Name: Ted DeWitt
Brea, CA (Zone 10b)
Orchids Container Gardener Butterflies Plumerias Hummingbirder Growing under artificial light
Dog Lover Tropicals Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Herbs Garden Ideas: Level 1 Cactus and Succulents
Just gorgeous. But it brought a question up in my mind. When judging are the number of flowers/spikes compared to In Sutu conditions with the number being closest being best? Or, all other things being equal, more is better.
Showing up is 88% of life
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Jun 15, 2019 8:33 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Well Ted, in this case there would be no in situ record to look at since this is a hybrid. You would never find it growing outdoors anywhere. At least not naturally.
But when we score or consider cultural awards we look at three things.
Number and condition of bloom.
Size and condition of plant
Overall floriferousness
Let me do overall floriferousness first. Is the plant flowered well all around? Or are the flowers just on one half of the plant or are the flowers mostly on one half of the plant. Flowers around the plant 360 degrees, up and down or both high and low, gets a maximum of 20 points.
Size and condition of plant means are there fungal spots, old insect damage, dead leaves or bulbs? Is there a lot of leafless bulbs? Are there leaf tips turning brown? If so how many?
Lastly you look at the flowers. Is the same damage I just mentioned above, existing for the flowers, are they typical? Lesser then average quality. Are there spent flowers? Both of these last two topics or points are worth 40 points each.
You score it and add up the three numbers to get a score.
But we research other cultural awards. If there are none, are there cultural awards on record for similar species? For similar hybrids? It takes a good deal of quick research and experience by the judges.
So you see, in situ really has nothing to do with it!
Lastly a Cultural award, CCM or CCE goes to the grower. And as such in my mind the standards stay more simple rather then the evolving flower quality awards. In other words, a hybrid like Paphiopedilum St. Swithin May have 30 different cultural awards!!! D'Oh! but in that case some judges would say enough is enough so they may be reluctant to consider it for a cultural award.
BUT IN MY MIND this St. Swithin that Ted 5310 brought in is worth looking at. By average flower count of other St. Swithin cultural awards, this plant in my opinion is as good as some recent ones that scored between 80 and 84 points. So I score your plant 83 points say.
And as I said it is your plant, you did a wonderful job growing it!!! It is not really fair to you to say enough is enough. You grew this and it deserves an award to acknowledge your skill!!
I know, a really long answer for a simple question but I think it was warranted! I tip my hat to you.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Jun 15, 2019 8:40 PM Icon for preview
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Jun 16, 2019 7:09 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
That is one totally gorgeous Cyp! Just wow! Lovey dubby
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Jun 16, 2019 7:20 AM CST
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Orchids Photo Contest Winner 2021 Photo Contest Winner 2023
That is an amazing plant, thanks for sharing Bill!
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Jun 16, 2019 10:32 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
My pleasure! None of us get to see these much but there are 2 growers up here who have quite a few. But that plant is just so pretty!
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.

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